What A Compassionate President

[blas87]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/feat...wner_with.html

I know I get a lock of flack for being a No-Bama hater, but I cannot even fathom how others can't be upset over something like this.

The owner of the Eagles gets a pat on the back for giving Vick a second chance by no other than our commander in chief. Awww, how nice.

Michael Vick may without a doubt be a great athlete, but what he did is morally disgusting and cruel. He is among just the many pro athletes who get off lightly for crimes they commit, then put on a pedastol when they make a return, as if the sun just returned after months of dark clouds and rain.

This is a new low in my opinion. A pat on the back for giving a second chance to criminals, especially high profile athletes. How about a pat on the back for people that continue to fight the fight to keep food on the table, keep their job, and keep themselves out of trouble? How about a pat on the back for the soldiers who are still in the line of fire every day? How about a pat on the back for the families of those soldiers, or wounded veterans? How about a pat on the back for people who have overcame true adversity and true trying times in life, not suffered meager consequences for animal cruelty?

He doesn't even deserve to be spit upon. That'd be a waste of good saliva.

[Rapscallion]

On the purely practical side, I have a feeling that Obama's going to regret this. If Vick goes back to his old ways, this is going to reflect back onto him. If not, he's going to get flak for apparent support for an animal torturer.

I can see where he's coming from. Prison is supposed to be about rehabilitation. Fine, if he's actually rehabilitated, and I have my doubts. On the grounds of rehabilitation, Obama did right. He's backing the system and trying to encourage good behaviour. I relly think he's going to end up with mud on himself not of his own doing, though.

Rapscallion

[blas87]

I would think it rightfully so if he gets a lock of flack and mud for it.

If he wanted to make an example of the good of prison or rehabilitation of criminals, he could have picked any Tom, Dick or Harry who overcame a life of crime or dirty business. Instead he picked a famous athlete notorious for committing cruelty to animals.

Perhaps I listen to too much talk radio, but I have to agree with the personalities that it just instills the opinion that the average American means nothing to him.

[Rapscallion]

I'll point out right now that I have no investment in this topic as the guy's not my president. It's intellectual only.

Instead he picked a famous athlete notorious for committing cruelty to animals.

The US is notoriously christian, and with that comes the baggage of forgiveness. Where does that start and end?

Is it a worse crime because it involved animals? Bernie Madoff - it was only money, right? Not that money is time out of peoples' lives and their futures gone. Which of them was worse?

What other crime would you rank in what order? Which crime is worthy of forgiveness whereas this one isn't? I'm genuinely interested.

Should Vick face more punishment than someone who isn't that well known just because of his fame and infamy? From what I can tell, he received a fairly similar sentence to what others did for the same offence, and then went back into his chosen field for employment. Is he being treated any differently? Does punishment end after the jail term ends, or should it continue after?

I'm not on Vick's side. There's no reason a civilised society should have dog fighting in it. Did he receive sufficient punishment for his crimes? I don't know. That's a matter of opinion, and society has had to come up with a body of people trained and paid to deal with such things in as impartial a manner as possible - politicians to decide on what is a crime and what an acceptable punishment is, and the judiciary to enact those laws. The court of public opinion is fickle and vicious.

I'm not a pet owner, but I'd be quite happy to spend some time alone with a chained up Vick and a cattle prod. That's why we need the judiciary etc.

Rapscallion

[HYHYBT]

That's it exactly: as far as I can tell, he did serve about the same sentence that is normal for that offense. Once served, it's over with.... or ought to be. And I've never understood the "put on a pedestal" mentality, either: is it really so difficult for people to admire some aspects of a person and not others?

[Greenday]

Since when is prison considered special treatment? He got what any other douchebag would who torture dogs and made them fight.

I mean, I don't think picking up a superb athlete and starting him deserves a pat on the back. But in all reality, I couldn't care less. Other than making me say, "Okay, I don't give a shit..." life continues on as normal. Not like he's hooking up all his friends with huge contracts and making them filthy rich and helping the rich get richer like the other side.

[Hyena Dandy]

I mean, I don't think picking up a superb athlete and starting him deserves a pat on the back

Not to nitpick the issue, but Vick wasn't started until after Kolb was injured. He picked a guy who nobody thought would be worth anything, and gave him a second chance, even though (it seems obviou now) it was a hell of a risk. It does deserve congratulations

[Greenday]

Not to nitpick the issue, but Vick wasn't started until after Kolb was injured. He picked a guy who nobody thought would be worth anything, and gave him a second chance, even though (it seems obviou now) it was a hell of a risk. It does deserve congratulations

Nobody wanted to take the publicity hit. No one wanted a person with that kind of character on their team. It was just bad press.

Vick wasn't started because Andy Reid is borderline retarded as far as coaching goes. He's a terrible coach who should be fired if the Eagles' owner ever wants to win a Super Bowl. It won't happen while Reid coaches. Everyone know Kolb would suck and Vick would be so much better. Nothing that has happened surprises anybody.

[Skunkle]

Why didn't Obama pick any Tom, Dick or Harry? Even though the public sometimes acts as though politicians pointing out 'ordinary joes' makes them seem more personable, as of late this has seemed more and more false and patronizing. I have a feeling the general public would have taken "Look how well Joe Blow is doing now that he's out of prison for <crime>" as "Who the fuck is Joe Blow, and why do I fucking care about some random idiot who got nailed for something?" I.e. he may have wanted to point out someone the public thinks about. Unfortunately, who do the public seem to care to hear about more than any 'regular' person? Celebrities. In any field. The American public is OBSESSED with celebrities.

I think this was calculated to point out a hope for rehabilitation, but involving a name your average American will know - and, further, a real hope, as many of us DO hope that people get rehabilitated and change. Yes, it might blow back on him, but just about everything a politician does has a risk.

I don't LOVE Obama, incidentally. I do like him, but I don't agree with everything he does. But then, there is no politician I've ever liked 100%, and I think it's nigh-impossible. Even the most steadfast Bush supporter, I think, can probably say there were a few things he said and/or did that they didn't agree with.

[blas87]

Why is it every time you insut a Messiah supporter, they always have to bring up Dumbya (oh, that right there should sum up what I thought of our last president)? I mean really, the guy was an absolute fucking retard.

Just because I'm a conservative doesn't mean I voted for Bush (I was too young to vote in '04) or that I even supported him, nor does it mean I voted for McCain nor does it mean I support that bobble-headed moron Palin.

My mother has some real liberal tendencies and supports most of what Obama stands for, and even she thought this was a stupid act on his part.

My argument about the average Joe is that if he were to commit a heinous crime, would he be allowed to just go right back to the old job he had with open arms and a pat on the back for over-coming "adversity" and all the negatives that come with being a criminal? There are crimes that can get you fired from your job or demoted, and with a certain spectrum or two of crimes, once you come back, you're never looked at the same again. The Average Joe would have to overcome a lot more adversity than a famous athlete and would most likely have a much harder time in jail/prison than a famous athlete.

[Rapscallion]

There are people who have gone on to employment after jail without being famous. Admittedly, I couldn't name one. However, how about the points I raised above?

What do you imagine to be an acceptable punishment?

Should there be some form of rehabilitation for criminals? If not, then why should they try to rehabilitate?

Rapscallion

[blas87]

I wouldn't consider myself anti-rehabilitation, and much to people's surprise, I don't think every criminal should be executed or tortured.

I am against celebrities and pro athletes getting off easier than the average person just because they have more money and a big name.

This hits hard with me because I am an animal lover and I cannot fathom why someone would do such a horrible thing to dogs.

An acceptable punishment would have been several years in prison and probably community service involving working (supervised!) with animals to learn a little respect and compassion for those who cannot speak for themselves. Not isolated in a special cell because of being famous and with privileges that come with being a celebrity and having money, but in prison with average people who have to rely on their own will power to get through every day of their sentence and to have to protect themselves from attacks and bullies and have to obey rules for bedtime/cell time and chow time.

Forgiveness? Let's not pull the "Good Christian" thing. Anyone is allowed to hold a grudge. If he were really sorry, he would have opened up that fat pocket book of his and given millions of dollars to the Humane Association or the ASPCA and made public appearances admitting what he did was wrong. He doesn't deserve to play professional football so soon. Think of how entitled most famous people are, being given such a pat on the back is just going to over inflate his ego and before you know it, he'll be up to something else.

[Cat]

I voted for Obama, and usually like him, but this support of Vick made bile rise in my throat. *hiss, growl*

An acceptable punishment would have been several years in prison and probably community service involving working (supervised!) with animals to learn a little respect and compassion for those who cannot speak for themselves. Not isolated in a special cell because of being famous and with privileges that come with being a celebrity and having money, but in prison with average people who have to rely on their own will power to get through every day of their sentence and to have to protect themselves from attacks and bullies and have to obey rules for bedtime/cell time and chow time.

I really like this idea. I hear his trying to get a dog now for his family *shudder*

[Rapscallion]

Heh - not sure I'd want him anywhere near animals given his record.

Forgiveness? Let's not pull the "Good Christian" thing. Anyone is allowed to hold a grudge. If he were really sorry, he would have opened up that fat pocket book of his and given millions of dollars to the Humane Association or the ASPCA and made public appearances admitting what he did was wrong. He doesn't deserve to play professional football so soon. Think of how entitled most famous people are, being given such a pat on the back is just going to over inflate his ego and before you know it, he'll be up to something else.

I'm no christian, but I accept that it's the basis for the current legal system.

Wold you have believed it to have been a genuine gesture had he made those public statements and the donations? I'd have viewed it as public relations.

What is an acceptable period to be banned from playing sports? Effectively you're saying he should be banned from his income. Would this length of time be the same period of unemployment for average people offending? Effectively this is saying that punishment should go on longer than the jail sentence given out by the court, so I have a problem with it.

What would be an acceptable amount to give to the humane societies? Preferably something within reach of the average offender, of course, since there's equality before the law. A percentage of your wealth instead? I don't think that's part of the current system, but I'm actually all for the idea of letting the punishment fit the crime. Get hold of your local lawmaker and let them know you want this system in place.

It's a bit Gilbert and Sullivan, but I actually approve to a fair degree.

Rapscallion

[blas87]

I didn't say he could never play again, I think it's too soon and it's just a big boost to his ego, everyone who is fawning over him and Nobama. As I said before, celebrities and pro athletes have lots of entitlement issues. It would be easy to make another mistake all over again.

In all honesty, it'd be best if he layed low for several years and didn't get some giant pat on the back from the president.