US Rep. Giffords (Arizona 8) shot along with others at Tucson AZ event, fatalities...

[crashhelmet]

People keep bringing up the higher amount of guns owned in Canada compared to the US. What types of guns are those? Hunting Rifles? Shotguns? I'd like to see a break down of those statistics. What are the comparative ratios for handguns, single shot rifles, shotguns, and assault rifles?

[Hyena Dandy]

I fail to see how that matters. A gun is a gun, isn't it? I don't understand the relevance to the discussion.

So let's just get rid of all laws. Let's make this an anarchistic state and leave it to the "Survival of the Fittest."

I don't see how you got that from the statement. The question was why we should ban high-capacity clips, if the problem isn't how many bullets are in the gun, its who's shooting them.

[crashhelmet]

I fail to see how that matters. A gun is a gun, isn't it? I don't understand the relevance to the discussion.



I don't see how you got that from the statement. The question was why we should ban high-capacity clips, if the problem isn't how many bullets are in the gun, its who's shooting them.

Moreover, since we know criminals are going to break laws anyway,

Why have laws if they're going to be broken anyway... Why limit the original argument to guns only? Why not open it up to everything.

[Hyena Dandy]

Why have laws if they're going to be broken anyway... Why limit the original argument to guns only? Why not open it up to everything.

You're seriously confusing me. Could you point out what I said that implied I was trying to ban laws of all sorts, or anything similar? I really don't see how you're reaching these conclusions

[crashhelmet]

You're seriously confusing me. Could you point out what I said that implied I was trying to ban laws of all sorts, or anything similar? I really don't see how you're reaching these conclusions

I was quoting Wingates the first time, then you to clarify your question of relevance about my response.

My response to to the clip size was that a 15 round clip is standard issue for a Glock 19, so therefor a 30 round clip would be considered "High Capacity"

[Hyena Dandy]

Is the Glock 19 the standard judge of handguns? I don't know much of guns, so I can't be sure. I mean, a 30 round clip for a Glock 19 might be high capacity, but is it high capacity in other guns?

[crashhelmet]

Is the Glock 19 the standard judge of handguns? I don't know much of guns, so I can't be sure. I mean, a 30 round clip for a Glock 19 might be high capacity, but is it high capacity in other guns?

Handguns are like computers. They have the same basic structure, but different manufacturers use different components for the same features. Some make them slightly bigger, some make them slightly smaller. Some, like the Sig Sauer P250 allow you to completely customize the caliber of the round as well as the grip.

Your average sized 9mm handgun, like the Glock 19 and Sig Sauer P226, are 15+1 configurations. That's 15 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber. Compact models like the Kel-Tec PF9 and Taurus PT709 are typically 7+1.

Manufacturers do make larger clips. They make them in 20 and 30 round capacities. Those are considered High Capacity magazines.

Glock 19 with Standard issue 15 Round Magazine
Glock 19 with a High Capacity 33 Round Magazine

Notice the difference in how the magazines sit in the grip. One is flush, the other is anything but.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Isn't the standard issue clip for a Glock 19 only 15 rounds? Therefore, a 30 round clip would be considered high capacity.

The Glock 19 is a compact handgun and therefore holds less than other Glocks of the same caliber as the magazine is shorter to fit in a shorter grip. For 9mm Glocks is just under 20. The Five-Seven fits 30 in a standard magazine, it varies from model to model for a number of reasons which is why it's fallacious to peg an amount as standard for all models. "Standard" is best defined IMO by the amount held in factory issued magazines, which for some weapons like the M93R would include non-flush fitting mags. For basically any modern rifle the standard is 30 for 5.56NATO and sometimes 20 for 7.62NATO/ .308 Win.

Under proposed legislation and existing legislation for that matter, anything above 10 is considered "High-capacity" with some morons complaining that even that's not low enough.

So let's just get rid of all laws. Let's make this an anarchistic state and leave it to the "Survival of the Fittest."

I don't think I've ever seen a strawman insulted so thoroughly, but if you like to stroll back over here to real people land, you'd notice that the reality of the situation we find ourselves in is remarkably similar to that of prohibition and narcotics. Making something illegal does little or nothing to solve anything unless it's intensively enforced, something our limited LE forces consistently fail to accomplish then and now.

So instead of simply trying to sweep these problems under the rug, a strategy that's failed every time it's been used, how about we deal with them as the reality they are?

There's such a thing as good gun control and bad gun control, bans on weapons, accessories and carry are bad, enhancing our ability to keep them out of the hands of criminals and whack jobs is good. Problem being that the first is being passed off as the second and it just isn't.

[Andara Bledin]

There's such a thing as good gun control and bad gun control, bans on weapons, accessories and carry are bad, enhancing our ability to keep them out of the hands of criminals and whack jobs is good. Problem being that the first is being passed off as the second and it just isn't.

Better education requirements would be nice, too.

^-.-^