New gun control push because of Tucson shooting

[ditchdj]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41071206...ew_york_times/

------You know, I remember about fifteen years ago. I was at a Wendy's getting some food to go. I overheard a cop and some other guy sitting at a table talking about gun control. The cop says, "The only thing that gun contol laws do is take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens".

[Andara Bledin]

The cop says, "The only thing that gun contol laws do is take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens".

That's because that's all it really does. Unless you have a society built on totalitarian ideals that has no guns from the beginning, or you go full totalitarian and have a governmental search and roundup of all firearms, those already breaking the law are not going to suddenly abide any new laws just because they exist.

^-.-^

[blas87]

My father once told me that the Nazis (among the other tyrants in that time period) practiced gun control. So that the common law abiding citizen couldn't get their hands on a firearm, and only the Nazi regime had that kind of power.

Another really wise person once told me that if we outlaw firearms, only outlaws will have them.

[guywithashovel]

Maybe we should also push to making driving illegal every time there is a fatal car accident.

[the_std]

My father once told me that the Nazis (among the other tyrants in that time period) practiced gun control. So that the common law abiding citizen couldn't get their hands on a firearm, and only the Nazi regime had that kind of power.

Godwin'd! Whee! The fact that Nazis followed this practice is almost wholly irrelevant to its application to modern American society.

I won't go into my views on the gun law, as American gun mentality is far beyond my Canadian brain.

[blas87]

And I'm just an idiot American gun toting blonde version of Sarah Palin who shoots pheasants for fun out of my car.

I don't even own a gun, just for the record. The sarcasm and superiority was not necessary.

[the_std]

And I'm just an idiot American gun toting blonde version of Sarah Palin who shoots pheasants for fun out of my car.

I don't even own a gun, just for the record. The sarcasm and superiority was not necessary.

I'm really not too sure where you came up with this. I was merely pointing out that bringing up the Nazis to reinforce your point of view, when it actually has very little to do with the current discussion, is invoking Godwin's Law. That has its own implication.

I find nothing superior about the Canadian view of guns over the American view of guns. All I meant by that statement is that I just do not understand the American view of guns at all. I've tried many times, and I have failed.

[blas87]

History has a very bad habbit of repeating itself, it's very pertinent. I don't know why so many people get so hung up on "Just because this happened years ago has no meaning today!"....oh it has a lot of meaning.

Tyrants also had czars. Guess who has had and who else currently has czars today? Oh, but that doesn't count because that's in the past, I'm sure there's a logical reason to explain that, or I'm just totally wrong here.

[AdminAssistant]

The Third Reich was only able to rise to power due to a very special set of circumstances that are unlikely to be repeated in any modern, first-world society. I'm sure there are dictators and tyrants out there (especially in Africa) who would make Hitler look like an innocent schoolboy, but it won't happen in America or Canada or the UK or...etc.

The fact that Canadians own more guns than we do (per capita) with fewer accidents, murders, and suicides makes it seem to me that there is a healthier attitude towards firearms north of the border.

[Andara Bledin]

The Third Reich was only able to rise to power due to a very special set of circumstances that are unlikely to be repeated in any modern, first-world society.

You are vastly underestimating the power of group dynamics.

As only one of several examples, check out information about the Third Wave. This was an impromptu experiment undertaken by a teacher without any real preparation in 1967.

^-.-^

[the_std]

I should add in here that I have no problem with people using the Nazis as examples for their arguments if it is a thought-out explanation, comparing their tactics to the ones being discussed, that kind of thing. There were some pretty unique things that happened under the Nazi regime that are prime argument fodder, but the equivalent of saying "The Nazis did it, therefore it is bad" is such a prime example of Godwin's Law that it usually discourages any probing into the argument it represents.

[BlaqueKatt]

The Third Reich was only able to rise to power due to a very special set of circumstances that are unlikely to be repeated in any modern, first-world society.

Really? bolded are what the US currently has going on

Other conditions fostering the rise of the Third Reich include nationalism and Pan-Germanism, civil unrest attributed to Marxist groups, the global Great Depression of the 1930s (consequent to the Wall Street Crash of 1929), hyperinflation, the reaction against the counter-traditionalism and liberalism of the Weimar Republic, and the rise of communism in Germany, i.e. the growth of the KPD (Communist Party of Germany). Many voters, seeking an outlet for their frustrations, and an expression for their repudiation of parliamentary democracy, which appeared incapable of keeping a government in power for more than a few months, began supporting far right-wing and far left-wing political parties, opting for political extremists such as the Nazi Party,

The Nazis promised strong, authoritarian government in lieu of effete parliamentary republicanism, civil peace, radical economic policy (including full employment), restored national pride (principally by repudiating the Versailles Treaty), and racial cleansing,

won't happen in America

The Nazis used lists of registered firearms to confiscate them from legal owners, that can't happen in the US? Guess what, it already has, it took Lawsuits to get law-abiding citizens property that was ILLEGALLY SEIZED returned. In a few cases it took YEARS.

police officers began confiscating weapons, including legally registered firearms, from civilians.

"Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons," he said.

But that order apparently does not apply to hundreds of security guards hired by businesses and some wealthy individuals to protect property.

[protege]

The Nazis used lists of registered firearms to confiscate them from legal owners, that can't happen in the US? Guess what, it already has, it took Lawsuits to get law-abiding citizens property that was ILLEGALLY SEIZED returned. In a few cases it took YEARS.

That's the point that I made in the other thread. Holy crap, I'm agreeing with you Seriously though, the Nazis seized legally owned firearms from their citizens, and recited the "laws" as they did it. Hell, Obama himself has been quoted (before the election) as being in favor of stricter gun controls. I think that's one reason he gets compared to Hitler at times. Not saying I *agree* with it, but I can understand why that parallel is being made.

I've always felt that if you take firearms away, you're still going to have gun crime. Think about it--in the US, the same thing was attempted with booze, and we all know how that worked out

[ditchdj]

Hey Protege answer me this.......

When you research these kind of issues through doing research on your own through reading books and the internet and other alternative sources, and compare what you hear through the mainstream media, doesn't it paint a completely different picture to you?????

To me, it does.

[Tanasi]

Confiscation using register lists has also happened in CA, NYC and DC.

Knee-jerk undebated laws are terrible and that's why our system of government was designed to go slow. Hopefully our representatives will think things thru. There is way too many feel good laws. CA passed a ban on rifles that are chambered in .50BMG despite the fact such a rifle has never been used in a crime. I was tickled when Ronnie Barret told the CA government they could kiss his hindend as he would never sell them a rifle nor repair any rifles they currently have. I wish other firearms manufacturers would do the same but government contracts are a big hunk of their business.

Another true cliche is: Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control.