The vindication of Dick Cheney

[Bronzebow]

An interesting article comparing the tactics of the current administration in the "war" on "terror" with the tactics of the previous.

It's an interesting and somewhat unnerving comparison, but in all honesty, I agree with the article. I do not see many differences between this administration and the previous. They both campaigned on party platform promises which were subsequently abandoned, they are both irresponsible with the country's debt, and they are both disappointingly sad with the way this so-called war has been handled. The only real difference I see is on what pet projects either one spent billions+ on.

I think this line in particular captures that essence:

"I don’t think it's even fair to call [Obama] Bush Lite. It's Bush. It's really, really hard to find a difference that's meaningful and not atmospheric."

[Rapscallion]

Not sure where you are in the world, but from a perspective of the UK every US politician seems to be right of centre. Well, to the right of Maggie Thatcher, almost. Then we hear people in the US complaining that he's a socialist and we giggle.

Well, I do anyway.

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

Nothing will ever vindicate Cheney. -.-

I do not see many differences between this administration and the previous.

Look, I don't approve of even the semblance of extending Bush's terror policies anymore than you do. But to say you can't tell the difference? I'd have to strongly question your memory of the last 10 years.

[Andara Bledin]

Not sure where you are in the world, but from a perspective of the UK every US politician seems to be right of centre.

Those of us with an understanding of world politics don't giggle, but we do sigh.

Our left is so far right they're in the center. To the point where anyone that is actually to the left is considered somewhat extreme.

But to say you can't tell the difference? I'd have to strongly question your memory of the last 10 years.

I like how over 1/3 of all campaign promises kept and less than 1/10 actually broken equates to:

They both campaigned on party platform promises which were subsequently abandoned...

Halftime report at Politifact.

As to the rest of the OP, it continues to baffle me that anyone thinks that a war-machine that's been in full swing for 6 years can be pulled back. At this point, there are likely still many operations that are more reasonable to complete than pull out of.

^-.-^

[Bronzebow]

I'm in the States, Raps. Think I can agree with that assessment, however.

Nothing will ever vindicate Cheney. -.-

Except the Democratic party, in this case.

In all reality, these two administrations really are not that different when it comes to the actual kinds of ideaology, or lack of, used to guide their hands. Both are different sides of the same authoritarian coin. The differences come in on exactly what they choose to be authoritarian about. In the case of this one article, it's actually more a meeting of minds.

If one thief steals your wallet, and the other thief steals your car, would you argue there are differences between the thieves' techniques, or would you be bichin' that some damn thieves stole your car and your wallet?

...well, Obama has a really silver tongue. That's one big enough difference from Bush.

[Bronzebow]

I like how over 1/3 of all campaign promises kept and less than 1/10 actually broken equates to:

As to the rest of the OP, it continues to baffle me that anyone thinks that a war-machine that's been in full swing for 6 years can be pulled back. At this point, there are likely still many operations that are more reasonable to complete than pull out of.

Bush campaigned on a platform of limited government and controlled spending. I think we see where that went.

Obama campaigned on a platform arguing for, among other things, shutting down Guantanamo, ending the occupation, and eying legislation such as the PATRIOT act. All three are still here, even if slightly weakened in one way or another. That's not even touching the continuation of Bush era terrorism directions, which was the point of the article to begin with.

Those directions may not be everyone's top priority, but they are on mine. So far, I've just been disappointed. If Obama would have scaled back these types of activities, I would have cut him some slack, but I'm just not seeing it. I see a continuation of the scary stuff I saw during Bush years.

[Andara Bledin]

Obama campaigned on a platform arguing for, among other things, shutting down Guantanamo, ending the occupation, and eying legislation such as the PATRIOT act. All three are still here, even if slightly weakened in one way or another. That's not even touching the continuation of Bush era terrorism directions, which was the point of the article to begin with.

Here is a list of Obama's campaign promises that focuses on the military.

Politifact Obameter Military Promises

According to them, of the 33 Military promises made, 10 have been kept, 1 compromise made, 16 are still in the works, and 6 are stalled. 0 have been broken.

For whatever reason Guantanamo is not included in the military promise list, and it is currently rated as stalled. From their page on this particular promise:

President Barack Obama's campaign promise to close the Guantanamo Bay detention center has switched from In the Works to Stalled and back again (and again). All that movement reflects a simple dynamic: Obama really wants to close the center. But Congress really doesn't.

If you want to lay blame for this promise, at least, it doesn't belong at Obama's door.

^-.-^

[Bronzebow]

If you want to lay blame for this promise, at least, it doesn't belong at Obama's door.

^-.-^

Fair enough. His party deserves more of that ire for that, as well as their 'opposition.' That doesn't change the facts presented before, though. He's accountable for his continuation and expansion of the tactics used for the war on terror.

[Gravekeeper]

He's accountable for his continuation and expansion of the tactics used for the war on terror.

One thing doesn't make both administrations totally identical. You've scaled back your entire original post pretty quick. Btw, the economy is fine now! Now that the Republicans have congress back its been magically fixed and of course it's all their doing.

I hate American politics so much. >.>

[lordlundar]

I hate American politics so much. >.>

Sadly that's how American politics seems to work all the time. It's not a matter of actually DOING something, it's a matter of being there to take the credit when something positive happens.

[Mytical]

*nods* or being forced to take the blame when things go wrong that started in former administrations. Obama isn't the Messiah that people was expecting him to be, nor is he the 'anti-christ' they are trying to paint him to be. He is in a bit over his head, true, but neither the worst or best president ever. As for socialist/etc .. I've never seen anything wrong with helping those who need help. Call me a 'bleeding heart liberal' if you want, but sometimes people need a little help.

Now don't get me wrong, those that abuse the system should be 'taken out to the woodshed' so to speak. ((That saying I've heard a couple different meanings : Kids were 'taken out to the woodshed' to get spanked if they did something wrong, or it is where a fight would take place. Not sure which is the 'official' meaning)). If a person legitimately needs help, I see no issue with the government helping them. *shrugs*

[Bronzebow]

One thing doesn't make both administrations totally identical. You've scaled back your entire original post pretty quick. Btw, the economy is fine now! Now that the Republicans have congress back its been magically fixed and of course it's all their doing.

I hate American politics so much. >.>

Woah, woah, woah. My OP was talking about the original article, with an additional slant on the wars and occupations in regards to campaign promises and national debt. That's the discussion I wanted to talk about the whole time.

Scratch that.

That's the discussion I was trying to talk about. Everyone came out swinging without, I'm convinced, actually reading the article I've linked. From there, all hell broke loose. Maybe I screwed up how I presented myself in the OP, which is quite possible, or maybe you read too much into it, but jeez...cut a guy some slack here.

Personally, I do believe that the two parties are two sides of the same coin, and as a reflection of that, the administrations. I would gladly go into that if that is what you desire. However, that was tangential to my original point. How can people not be interested in how freakishly similar these last two admin's foreign policies are?

P.S.
What do repubs claiming job growth have to do with this? I hope you don't think I'm a member of...that party.

[Gravekeeper]

Woah, woah, woah. My OP was talking about the original article, with an additional slant on the wars and occupations in regards to campaign promises and national debt. That's the discussion I wanted to talk about the whole time.

My problem is the comparison of saying there's little to no difference as a whole. Rather then just with the anti-terrorism policies. To believe they're the same with the national debt for example is complete Kool-Aid territory. Who do you created the national debt? ><

Plus, as was pointed out, Obama's campaign promises are pretty easy to track. And the record's actually pretty decent. Especially for politics.

Getting out of two wars that have been going on that long is easier said then done too. Honestly, sad as it is, you can tell just by looking at Obama these days that he learned some awful shit about the current state of things when he took office. There's a lot of weight on the poor bastard's shoulders and fighting congress on a daily basis over things that make you just want to scream "ITS FUCKING COMMON SENSE AND HUMAN DECENY YOU ASSHOLES" probably wears on you pretty heavily. -.-

[Cata]

One thing doesn't make both administrations totally identical. You've scaled back your entire original post pretty quick. Btw, the economy is fine now! Now that the Republicans have congress back its been magically fixed and of course it's all their doing.

I hate American politics so much. >.>

I realize that your comment might be sarcastic, but there's evidence that the economy isn't fine now, that it's still close to a number of major failures. In particular, there's a number of economic pundits that are predicting Housing Crash part 2 Real Soon Now.

[Gravekeeper]

I realize that your comment might be sarcastic, but there's evidence that the economy isn't fine now, that it's still close to a number of major failures. In particular, there's a number of economic pundits that are predicting Housing Crash part 2 Real Soon Now.

It was sarcastic. I was just disgusted that the Republicans were suddenly claiming that what economic headway was made was due to them now that they have some power back. The level of cognative dissonance it must take to be a senator and not spend every night of your life curled up naked in the shower, crying tears of shame for everything you've said and done must be amazing.