OMG! you want us to pay for pensions=fascist pig

[BlaqueKatt]

ok so Wisconsin's new governor is trying to repair the state's budget.
story here

currently state workers and most city workers, pay nothing for health care, and nothing for their pensions.

He wants them to pay 8% of their salary for this it will save 30 million this year and $300 million over the next two years.( the bill would Require state employees to pay half of their pension contributions - an estimated 5.8% of their salary - and at least 12.6% of their health insurance premiums. The total of those two things would be around 8%)

He also wants to limit the state unions in their collective bargaining power, so they can only bargain over salaries. And to keep the unions from collecting dues from non-members(yes they do this, they call it "fair share payments", so if you don't join the union, you still have to pay the dues-hmmm legal extortion anyone?)


Naturally there are claims of him being a "fascist", a "union buster", and comparing him to mubarak.

Really, having to pay into a pension and pay 12% of your insurance premiums=being a dictator that allows no freedoms/civil rights?

Plus I'm loving the claims that they make less than private sector employees with wages and benefits-really the private sector gets free health insurance(even after retirement) and doesn't have to pay in a retirement fund-wow I guess I missed that memo.

Especially as my job offers no health care, and the taxpayers don't pay my pension, if I want a pension I have to start a private IRA and pay, guess what, my own damn money into it. My mom lives off of $600 a month Social Security, and a $200 a month pension that my step-dad(her deceased husband) payed into for 30 years. Yeah state workers have it soooo much worse than the private sector, which is why everyone wants a government job.

fascism-a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

yeah no.

[protege]

They're just pissed that they're no longer getting a free ride...and are having their benefits fucked with? Sorry, but boo hoo hoo. I don't get free healthcare, and have to fund my own retirement. Cry me a fucking river

[Racket_Man]

I watched the local news today ans saw all of the hubbub over this.

HMMMMM getting free or low cost health care, getting pension contributions free or low cost, collective bargining agreements all on, so to speak, my dime???



Hmmmm health care well my company does "offer" health insurance but it has no prescription drug coverage, sever $$$'s per year restrictions and limitations, lots of things NOT covered all for the price of $1300 a year. and yet I make too much to even try to obtain the limited state Medicaid program (not to mention I really can't becasue my employee DOES offer some crappy health coverage policy)

Pension ----- what is pension. I have some money put back but that is nowhere near what I need and the way it looks at 70 when I might be able to retire SS will be so much vaporware

Collective bargining/unions ---- will NEVER happen for those in my or a lot of other jobs. not enough there for the unions to even pay attention to us (and yes unions HAVE laughed as in ROTFLTAo at those in my "profession" when they tried to organize or to get union affiliation).

[BlaqueKatt]

HMMMMM getting free or low cost health care, getting pension contributions free or low cost, collective bargining agreements all on, so to speak, my dime???

yup I have one whining on FB about "worker's rights" and another complaing that "she's a taxpayer too, and has given up getting a raise for years."

Um I would be looking for another job if I went years without a raise, guess those posh benefits were enough to keep her working for 17 years, hey she'll only have to pay in for another 3 years or so to collect her pension...

And when I mentioned that I don't have health care, and most workers have to pay their own pensions/IRAs-I got told I needed a union at my job.

Um no, I work for a tiny company(seriously I have 13 co-workers-6 of which have PhDs), that is locally owned, I can walk into the owner's office anytime I have an issue. I have no stress and I love my job, I wouldn't trade that for a job with all the plush benefits in the world. I'd rather be happy and have no benefits, than have tons of benefits and be totally miserable.

And I did have a job with paid health care, sick leave and vacation, I came home crying from the stress almost daily. I'm finally happy at my no benefits job. I'm not waking up with a stomach ache, dreading work.

[blas87]

What I love are all the responses on FB, along with the "dictator" and other like insults, people are all "I'm a NURSE!" "I'm a TEACHER!"

Oh goody for you. Last I checked, life isn't a pissing contest over whose job is more important or better or more important. I'm a factory worker, weee, look at me, I make stufff! Oh wait, that doesn't sound very glamorous or important, does it ?

This whole entire matter has gotten completely out of hand. He isn't asking people to give away their rights and he isn't trying to take away their money. It's about balancing the budget and making things fair and right.

I have to have outrageous amounts of money (it increases EVERY year!) taken out of my check for insurance, if I wanted the company to even halfway decently match me for 401k, I'd have to put in nearly 10% (yes, some of us actually have to PAY IN to get retirement money!) and my job is one of the first ones who are subject to furloughs, reduced hours or permanent layoffs.

It's not fair to "protect" one type of field and not others.

Oh and just to add for fun......if we don't get raises at work, we have to deal with it. Sure, some people show less initiative and do a little less extra overtime, but we can't get away with refusing to work, and whining and protesting about raises will surely get you fired.

[BlaqueKatt]

What I love are all the responses on FB, along with the "dictator" and other like insults, people are all "I'm a NURSE!" "I'm a TEACHER!"

and their acting like two year-olds.

Seriously.

Two year old doesn't get what they want=tantrum
state workers don't get what they want=we'll strike
Great negotiation skills there

Plus, I keep correcting people on a very simple point, though the truth isn't as dramatic(they keep wanting to "be like Egypt", um no there is NO COMPARISON, stop it it's disgusting).

Truth=National Guard is on alert to take of the prisons if the correctional worker's union strikes-happened in 1977, guard took over.

Drama queens take=HE'S CALLING IN THE NATIONAL GUARD TO SUPPRESS OPPOSITION!!!!ELEVENTY1111

And because of all their drama, the severe cuts to medicaid also in the bill have gotten ZERO attention.

Hmmm you claim that the stuff with paying for health care and pensions for state workers will "hurt the working class" and is the "most pressing issue", guess the poor on state aid are somehow less important.

[blas87]

They've gone so over-board with the "He's taking away our rights!!!!" blargle that I can't even read that anymore without getting upset.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

With all these teachers/nurses/whatevers doing all this protesting, then who's teaching the schoolchildren, or taking care of the sick people, or doing their jobs?

And doesn't that kind of make the governor's point?

When I was still in high school, the teachers would occasionally do things like dress in all black and refuse to participate in their after-school activities any time a referendum or vote didn't go their way. I wasn't personally affected by this too much, but I do know it was happening.

I don't think the people of Wisconsin are on their side on this. Even the reliably liberal people in my life are talking about what a free ride public employees get compared to them. It's hard to feel much sympathy for them when you're getting puny raises or no raises at all, are watching your 401K lose money with no chance for a pension, are paying more for health insurance or even losing coverage, are having your personal and vacation time taken away, and so on.

No matter what ultimately happens, the public-sector employees of this state will still have it better than I can ever dream of.

[Greenday]

What? Actually having to pay for stuff and not getting something for nothing? You guys are silly.

[McDreidel09]

I do want to point out a reason why educators would be pissed. Think about it. You are pretty much in poverty. You are taking on a second job in order to cover your living expenses as it is. On top of your living expenses, you have to pay for all the materials that go into your room. This includes pens, pencils, board markers or chalk, erasers, board cleaner, projects, textbooks, any other books you may use, a globe, some type of decoration because the school demands that you decorate, any extra paper that you may use past a certain limit, pencil sharpener if the previous teacher didn't leave one, etc. On top of that, you have to go back to school to be all caught up on all the new educational techniques.

Now, they want to take more out of your paycheck, which does not reflect the number of hours you actually put in because bringing work home does not count.

My problem is that the first place they want to take money out of is education and/or aid for the poor and children. They can take money out of other places or even put real taxes on alcohol (since WI has more bars and alcoholics per capita).

[AdminAssistant]

Y'know, I don't have any sympathy for K-12 educators. I also take my work home. In fact, my future job will *require* me to spend more time working at home than in the classroom. Plus, there's the extra 5-7 years of education that I have to get. And yet, I don't get tax breaks like K-12 teachers. I don't have legions standing up and defending my right to a living wage.* I'll likely be making a comparable salary, unless I can only get an adjunct job (no benefits!) The primary benefit to teaching college is that I can teach what I damn please, so I'm happy to jump through the extra hoops for relative freedom. But K-12 educators are not more special than college faculty.

On the other hand, some states are being absolutely stupid about budget cuts. I agree that there's probably some fat to be trimmed from education budget (administrative salaries, athletics, does the marching band really need an indoor football field to practice in?) But politicians should also be looking at their own salaries, tax breaks to industry, superlative agencies, etc.

And, for the record, if my broke-ass state decides that they want to furlough me, you're damn straight I'm not showing up for work. I'll take a pay cut if absolutely necessary. But do not take away my paycheck entirely. It's tiny, but it's all I have.

*There are a small handful of folks standing up for GTA's, but that's a labor system unlikely to break anytime soon.

[McDreidel09]

That sucks that college professors where you are don't get the benefits. The professors at my college do. It even extends to their families. One of my profs told me how his partner switched to being covered under his insurance, but it still cost the same for them under the Domestic Partner's Insurance as it would have been if my prof's partner would have kept to his own insurance from work (which does not cover same sex partners). Yes, my profs pay for their own insurance.

[Greenday]

I think AA is talking about TA's, not professors.

[AdminAssistant]

I think AA is talking about TA's, not professors.

Yeah. Or adjuncts. I do have health insurance (which I pay for and covers very little, since we're expected to use student health services). But the only reason that we have insurance at all is because we're unionized.

Adjunct/lecturers typically do not have health insurance or access to student services. They also get paid between $1,000 to $4,000 per class. So, do the math.... If you can get to the point of being a tenured faculty member, then it can be kinda cushy (health benefits, steady employment, retirement plans), but that takes *years*.

So, yeah, K-12 educators can suck it, frankly.

[Depot Denizen]

Makes me almost feel bad about my job. I work in healthcare doing tech support and get really good benefits including medical, dental, and vision, and vacation/sick leave. I work a lot, but it's really not a bad gig at all. Considering I still don't have my degree, I'm making well over twice as much as I used to.

The whole "we'll strike" thing gets to me. Instead of going through the proper channels to resolve issues or try to get a raise, you strike? Seems very, very immature to me. When I was working at the uni there was talk of unions trying to form for the faculty, they wouldn't have it. Why pay union dues and all of that other nonsense? It just...doesn't seem relevant anymore in this day and age.