OMG! you want us to pay for pensions=fascist pig

[HYHYBT]

One other thing (and I'm not entirely sure how well it fits into this, except that remarks along these lines came up earlier in this thread): saying "well, *I* have to fund my own retirement, why should't you?" is fine, if you're talking to those nearer the beginning of their careers. But it's unconscionable to throw something like that at someone anywhere near (or in) retirement: they've planned and lived according to what they were due. That future pension is part of the agreed-upon pay for work already performed, and it's simply wrong to change the rules that late in the game. Even if it means the governor's corporate buddies don't get their tax break.

[Andara Bledin]

But it's unconscionable to throw something like that at someone anywhere near (or in) retirement: they've planned and lived according to what they were due. That future pension is part of the agreed-upon pay for work already performed, and it's simply wrong to change the rules that late in the game.

What the hell does a person's age have to do with it, though?

If it's an agreed-upon pay for work for one group, it's the same for all groups, regardless of age.

Also, I don't see how it would really be any worse for older people than younger. In both cases, they would have to start paying in to the system as opposed to having it paid in for them. How much they have already in should be completely unaffected, unless something hinky was going on in the first place.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

It's the "how much they already have in" I was talking about, though. Again, I don't know how much this applies to this particular case.

[draco664]

What the hell does a person's age have to do with it, though?

I think HYHYBT wrote that on the assumption that the current pension plans wouldn't remain in place. If the plans were scrapped completely (as in you had to start paying into an empty pension from tomorrow) then those close to retirement would have bugger all in their plan, having been relying on what they had been building up over the years.

[Andara Bledin]

I think HYHYBT wrote that on the assumption that the current pension plans wouldn't remain in place. If the plans were scrapped completely (as in you had to start paying into an empty pension from tomorrow) then those close to retirement would have bugger all in their plan, having been relying on what they had been building up over the years.

I don't think that's legal, since regardless of where the money is being stored, it belongs to the employees, not the employer, and would be rolled into whatever new plan was put into place.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

It isn't always stored anywhere at all. Pensions often work like Social Security, where current income covers current costs.

[BlaqueKatt]

and leaving to avoid the vote just blew up in their faces....spectacularly....

Governor Walker separated the collective bargaining from the budget bill, and it's being pushed through as a stand alone bill. A quorum is ONLY required for a fiscal bill, and since it's now no longer part of a fiscal bill....well....

And in the protesters over-zealousness to get the required signatures to try and recall Walker, they forgot one small detail....WI Laws do NOT allow a recall of an elected official that has not served out at least one year in office. So the attempt at(in my opinion) a "do-over" on the election, also failed.

and interestingly-both the Democrat that threw an object at, which struck a Republican, and the one that made basically a death threat, to a Republican colleague("you're f*cking dead!"), and was also arrested a few days later during a prostitution sting, are not being targeted for recall.

So, throw things at people, make death threats, and leave the state when you don't get your way....these are adults? A toddler has better negotiating skills....

[blas87]

And last week when Walker visited my fair city, someone called in a bomb threat.

[lordlundar]

So, throw things at people, make death threats, and leave the state when you don't get your way....these are adults? A toddler has better negotiating skills....

You should see in Japan and similar locations. Arguments degenerating into all out melees are not unheard of. Certainly more fun to watch than C-SPAN.

[derangedperson]

and leaving to avoid the vote just blew up in their faces....spectacularly....

Governor Walker separated the collective bargaining from the budget bill, and it's being pushed through as a stand alone bill. A quorum is ONLY required for a fiscal bill, and since it's now no longer part of a fiscal bill....well....

WOW.

I had a feeling Walker was gonna pull something like this, but I didn't think he'd do it.

[EmiOfBrie]

You know, instead of asking "why should they continue to get pensions and health care when I can't at my private job?", the real question you should be asking is why your work conditions couldn't have been raised to their level....why can't *you* have an expectation to make a living wage on a single job like, by all decency, you *should*!

[Racket_Man]

And last week when Walker visited my fair city, someone called in a bomb threat.

he has been in my area WAAAAYYYYY too many times including today. our parking lot driveway was blocked for like 15 minutes so his security convoy could go past.

[AdminAssistant]

the real question you should be asking is why your work conditions couldn't have been raised to their level....why can't *you* have an expectation to make a living wage on a single job like, by all decency, you *should*!

Emi, I think you're exactly right. A lot of the attitude I'm seeing boils down to, "How dare they make more money/have more benefits than me! I'm a taxpayer, and I pay their salary!!!" Forgetting that they actually make a lower salary than those in the private sector with similar education levels. And forgetting the fact that if we lower the pay for educators and other government employees while simultaneously slashing benefits, then you won't be getting the best educators, etc. Don't get me wrong, our K-12 system needs an overhaul, and I'm less worried about teachers than I am aides, bus drivers, cooks, etc. who often make much less than teachers without any of the sympathy.

So much of this seems like an attack on the notion of public schools, period. And we *need* public schools. Of course, education allows for class mobility, and we can't have that, can we, Republicans? They'd rather the working class stay down and uneducated, except for maybe a belief in one specific God.

[linguist]

Emi, I think you're exactly right. A lot of the attitude I'm seeing boils down to, "How dare they make more money/have more benefits than me! I'm a taxpayer, and I pay their salary!!!" Forgetting that they actually make a lower salary than those in the private sector with similar education levels.

This is exactly true. My wife is a legal secretary for the state, and she makes about 1/3 of what she could be making doing the same job in a private law practice, but the benefits make up for the lack of salary.

[Rageaholic]

You know, instead of asking "why should they continue to get pensions and health care when I can't at my private job?", the real question you should be asking is why your work conditions couldn't have been raised to their level....why can't *you* have an expectation to make a living wage on a single job like, by all decency, you *should*!

BINGO!

A lot of the responses in favor of the governor are from those who don't get those benefits. Workers should be treated better than this (especially since they make up most of the population) and that's what wrong with the system.

I just don't see how anyone can be so opposed to workers fighting for their rights. It's so counterproductive.