South Dakota GOP Wants to Legalize the Murders of Abortion Providers

[lordlundar]

Ah, I thought those were amendments, not a new draft. I stand corrected.

Okay, I can see how it can be interpreted. I can also see it being challenged in court the second it gets approved for the very reason you said, assuming it passes. Worst case scenario would be be it not being challenged, someone does try to use it as a defense, and the only way he'd get away with it would be if the judge/jury were of like minds to the defendant. That tends to bring the federal courts in which could quickly shut down the law.

[lordlundar]

And it is now shelved, much for the reasons discussed here. The sponsor of the bill essentially repeated my interpretation of the original bill. Odds are a new one that's more specific to to the clause of it needing to be an illegal act will spring up.

[FArchivist]

But my understanding is that South Dakota is the only state that has granted fetuses full rights.

Those laws have not remained valid as each time they are passed, they fail review in the court system. Each time, the reason has been that the fetal rights strip women of bodily autonomy and also infringe on parental rights.

Either this is intended to do nothing at all, or else it's worded badly

It is worded VERY badly, yes, which is why it's been put on hold.

It'd still be first degree murder in the federal court's eyes and the Supreme Court would never allow this to go by untouched.

Supreme Court wouldn't be able to get jurisdiction as there is no Constitutional issue that it contravenes.

I'm still trying to figure out where you're seeing it giving a green light to those who want to want to murder doctors who perform abortions. *snip* This bill would allow justifiable homicide to be used as a defense.

Correct. That is the actual problem with this. It would create an affirmative defense for 'defending the fetus'. Here is the problem with that, for those unfamiliar.

Say I am the estranged husband going through a divorce with my wife because I beat the shit out of her. My wife is pregnant with my child; she decides she wants an abortion and goes to the abortion clinic. I hear about it and go rampaging in with a shotgun, killing the abortion doctor.

In my defense in court, I state that I honestly believed my wife had been abducted against her will and was having the abortion forced on her, thus I intervened to save the fetus. If this bill became law, this would provide me with an affirmative defense.

The prosecutor would then have to prove that I did NOT honestly believe the fetus was in danger, which would be very difficult. Failing that, I would receive a reduced sentence or even exoneration for the crime.

The Army of God would LOVE the amended bill. They could set up one of their followers to get an abortion and then come in blasting away. They then assert this defense, the pregnant follower backs it up, and boom, the killers of the abortion doctor are totes innocent.

[Sleepwalker]

That is not how self defense works. You can kill someone harming you if killing them is your best way to make them stop- you don't have to simply let them harm you to the point of miscarriage(which is grievous harm) simply because they don't intend to kill you(how would you even know that?). You would be justified under the law in killing someone trying to gouge out your eyes or chop off your hand, _if killing them was your only reasonable option to escape harm_.

If you could run away, or lock yourself in a secure room and call the police, it would not be justified. It has nothing to do with the fetus somehow not being a part of(?) the pregnant woman. Therefore, this law does not protect pregnant women.

[derangedperson]

I know I'm a little late to the party, so here's my 2 cents:

1. I'm against abortion, but there's no reason to go after the doctors who perform them. They might as well call this the Eric Rudolph bill.

2. With something like this happening in SD...why can't legislators in Kansas show some initiative?

[AdminAssistant]

2. With something like this happening in SD...why can't legislators in Kansas show some initiative?

Initiative to do what? I know there are some anti-choice style bills on the table but I haven't kept up as much as I should. Frankly, the Kansas legislature is mostly concerned with gutting social services, scaring Democrats, and passing social mandates to appease bigots. It's awful. I sincerely wish that the northeast corner could separate from the rest of the state.

[derangedperson]

Initiative to do what? I know there are some anti-choice style bills on the table but I haven't kept up as much as I should. Frankly, the Kansas legislature is mostly concerned with gutting social services, scaring Democrats, and passing social mandates to appease bigots. It's awful. I sincerely wish that the northeast corner could separate from the rest of the state.

I was trying to make a crack about the Phelpses. I saw the thread topic and thought if I replaced South Dakota with Kansas and abortion doctors with WBC members, that would be something we could all agree on.

Could've made the joke clearer.

[AdminAssistant]

Ah, sorry.