one of the reaons teacher's unions are under fire

[BlaqueKatt]

article here

it took the Los Angeles school district five years at a cost of $3.5 million to fire six teachers for poor performance-that's over $116,000 per teacher per year just to fire them.

In Washington, D.C., 75 teachers were dismissed for alleged incompetence in 2008. One teacher was let go for playing DVDs in class, another missed 20 days of work in two months. All ended up being reinstated by an arbitrator. So firing bad teachers is useless as they'll just be reinstated.

You may have an awesome teacher and a horrible one, but when layoffs come job performance has no place in the layoff process, all that matters in seniority, and to me that's pretty f'ed up.

[Sleepwalker]

Not nearly enough information in that article. What were the DVDs? Were they curriculum related, or his own personal entertainment? Why were 20 days missed... illness? Family emergency?

There is no indication that the teachers were actually, y'know, bad. Or that their infractions were worthy of them being fired. Just that someone tried to fire them and was over ruled.

[AdminAssistant]

I remember watching movies in class as a kid. Sometimes educational, sometimes not. The fun ones were usually as rewards, like after taking standardized tests or something. Or right before a break when you're so hyped up that no learning's going to take place anyway. Nothing wrong with that.

[Boozy]

The system is in place to protect employees from wrongful dismissal. And yes, the legal system can be expensive. But what is the alternative?

It's expensive to have criminal trials to prove guilt or innocence, too, but I don't hear many people arguing that we shouldn't bother.

[Greenday]

What were the DVDs? Were they curriculum related, or his own personal entertainment?

From what I recall in middle school, our teachers had to check in with the higher ups and let them know what movies were being played and be approved, so if some stupid kid whines to their parent about it, the school will 100% be backing the teacher.

[joe hx]

I remember once in middle or high school we watched a movie.... and one kid had to sit at the door and watch if an administrator happened to be walking by so the teacher could shut off the movie at the time.

[Andara Bledin]

When I was in high school, some 20+ years ago, one of my teachers regularly let us choose what movies we wanted to watch out of a huge collection of tapes he'd copied off of channels like HBO. Then again, when it's the beginning of end of the year, the yearbook staff class doesn't actually have much to do unless you're one of the photographers or get assigned to cover some start-of-school event.

^-.-^

[fireheart17]

From what I recall in middle school, our teachers had to check in with the higher ups and let them know what movies were being played and be approved, so if some stupid kid whines to their parent about it, the school will 100% be backing the teacher.

The rule at most schools in South Ausland is as follows:

G (all age films): fine to show without parent support.
PG (parental guidance for folks under 15): require parental support at primary school, not so much in high school.
M (recommanded for folks over 15, more violent or lewd than PG but less than MA): not to be shown in primary school, can be shown in high school with parental persmission.
MA: Some films can be shown, but they need to be approved by parents and the Education Department 100%. A film like Thirteen for example (the one where the girls go down the path of sex and drugs) is OK to be shown as it's often used in health class, while a film like 13 Ghosts...not so much.

Can't recall any parents going beserk over their kids seeing films though.

[Evandril]

Look at a nation-wide listing of what states have strong unions for their teachers, then look at the scores those states get on testing....

[BlaqueKatt]

Look at a nation-wide listing of what states have strong unions for their teachers, then look at the scores those states get on testing....

oh look I addressed that already-correlation does not equal causation

cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy

4 of those five states teach "intelligent design" as science.
Also those states have a higher poverty level than average.

[Andara Bledin]

oh look I addressed that already-correlation does not equal causation

cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy

This bears constant repeating.

TEST SCORES, POVERTY AND ETHNICITY: THE NEW AMERICAN DILEMMA (pdf from 2006)

Level of wealth continues to be the greatest determining factor for educational performance.

^-.-^

[Kheldarson]

But level of wealth just really tells you the amount parents should be involved. I'm teaching in a Title 1 school district. And I'll tell you what, the students whose parents are in all the time and are incredibly involved are the ones who are doing okay. The rest....they're the behavior problems and the ones trying their hardest to fail.

[FArchivist]

You may have an awesome teacher and a horrible one, but when layoffs come job performance has no place in the layoff process, all that matters in seniority, and to me that's pretty f'ed up.

This applies to every union that has collective bargaining, public OR private.
And, for instance, we don't have collective bargaining for teachers here in GA. Which is why we end up with situations like this:

Investigators appointed last summer by then-Gov. Sonny Perdue, say they have found evidence that the district-wide cheating on the state’s standardized test, the CRTC, has been going on for years. Since the early 2000’s, they say that the district engaged in “a pattern and practice” of punishing employees who reported cheating, or asked questions how the CRTC was managed.

So pick and choose. You can either:
a) have collective bargaining and protect some bad apple teachers along with the good
b) have no collective bargaining and have absolutely no protection against your corrupt superiors.

Me, I'll take Option A, thanks.
If you want Option B, you're welcome to move here to Atlanta and give it a shot.