Michigan, Meet Martial Law

[lordlundar]

I mean that we don't have any fascist groups trying to eliminate whole groups of people. It's clearly not happening in the government. Do we have governors who want people to have to earn their benefits like everyone else? Certainly. But that's a big difference from wiping out every Jew, gypsy, etc.

And yet you have a governor who wants to give the power to effectively abandon whole sections of the state to people with absolutely no oversight or say from the public who voted him into power and work on the "honour system."

I have yet to see the honour system work even when you could trust the person and a government appointed director would be the last person I would trust, especially in Michigan. Those checks and balances are there for a reason, and it's specifically to prevent the people who's motto is "trust me" while they hold the poisoned dagger behind their back from doing whatever they want.

Put simply Greenday, do you trust your boss to not just walk up to you one day and say "pack up your things, your fired", regardless of how well you're performing at your job? No? Then why would you trust a politician to not do that exact same thing if given half a chance?

[Greenday]

Put simply Greenday, do you trust your boss to not just walk up to you one day and say "pack up your things, your fired", regardless of how well you're performing at your job? No? Then why would you trust a politician to not do that exact same thing if given half a chance?

Talk about ultimate backfire. As a matter of fact, I DO trust my boss to not just walk up to me one day and say, "Pack up your things, you're fire," regardless of how well I'm doing.

1. My boss is in America and I doubt she'd fly to Afghanistan just to fire me.
2. (On a more serious note) Considering what I do, where I do it, how long it would take them to find a replacement, and how long it would take to get that replacement out here, I'm not being fired.
3. My company is making a crapload of money by having me out here. They fire me, they lose out on a lot of money.

Not once, in my life, in any job I've ever had, did I EVER worry for even a split second about being fired for any reason or no reason at all.

[lordlundar]

<sigh> Way to miss the point Greenday. Fine, I will put it as clearly as I can:

If the Governor gets the authority to do this, he will have SOLE authority over the state. No Oversight, nothing to stop him. He gets a group that is causing problems? He appoints a "manager" and tells him to have proof that they are beyond help. Instant removal of public funding and employment. Can't be voted out because there will be no one to collect the polls from that region. They will effectively cease to exist. And what you're saying is that you want the people to simply put blind faith into him not doing any of this for the sake of efficiency.

Do you get it now? He is willing to let the state descend into anarchy just so he doesn't have to give up power. And if you think this wouldn't happen, consider that this is Michigan, where the last century is most known as having the most corrupt politicians in the country.

[Greenday]

So then it needs to be amended, not repealed. The law is a good one, there just needs to be a way to say, "Hey, you're full of shit with this one" and block it. But he should definitely be able to have the power to say, "Damn, you guys can't run a school for shit! GTFO!"

[smileyeagle1021]

Communists, nazis, dictatorships =/= Republic

Giving a governor the ability to fire education people for sucking won't lead to genocide.

What will happen though when the governor decides to disband police forces, replace city councils, or unilaterally change school curriculum to teach that homosexuality is a sin punishable by death and Jews killed Christ and should be punished? Unlikely, yes, but still possible under the law (which I don't understand why this has become only about education for you when the law allows for the interference in practically any government activity with almost no oversight)

I mean that we don't have any fascist groups trying to eliminate whole groups of people. It's clearly not happening in the government. Do we have governors who want people to have to earn their benefits like everyone else? Certainly. But that's a big difference from wiping out every Jew, gypsy, etc.

See the previous comment about unilaterally changing curiculum. All out genocide isn't the only negative outcome that can occur from this. Just because there isn't gas chambers doesn't mean that lives won't be negatively effected.

"Damn, you guys can't run a school for shit! GTFO!"

Once again, going back to a previous response. What's to stop a Christian fundamentalist governor from deciding that how a school teaches evolution (namely that they teach it) is grounds for firing administrators and moving his own people in? What's to stop them from deciding that a school district that doesn't include as part of their abstinence only sex ed a disclaimer that gays are icky and you'll go to hell if you ever consider engaging in homosexual activity is a failing school and bring in administrators sympathetic to his views?

No one person should have the that much power, there must be oversight.

[Greenday]

I use schools as an example because everyone has experience being in school and it's obvious that schooling in general isn't up to snub. I'm saying someone needs the power to do something about it. I even admitted there needs a body that can say when he's obviously overstepping his boundaries. But having to wait until the next election doesn't solve anything. It's like sweeping stuff under the carpet. That doesn't make the problems go away.

[lordlundar]

So then it needs to be amended, not repealed. The law is a good one, there just needs to be a way to say, "Hey, you're full of shit with this one" and block it.

No, the law is crap. It's been drafted to give the governor absolute authority without any oversight. To implement any oversight runs contrary to the law which defeats the purpose of it and renders it useless. So the choice becomes a law that screams authoritarian rule or a waste of time piece of paper.

There is no possible way any law that says "you voted him in, now you have to accept him having full authority over you until he decides otherwise" is going to be beneficial to the public and there's no way it will survive a SCOTUS challenge.

[AdminAssistant]

First of all, using schools as the examples, principals and superintendents (and teachers for that matter) are hired and fired all the time. You may have to wait until the end of the school year, so there's that. School boards are elected by the people, and I have a bit of an issue with the governor being able to step in and say, "Yeah, I know you elected these guys, but they don't agree with what I agree with, so fuck you all, you're all fired."

[Greenday]

School boards are elected by the people, and I have a bit of an issue with the governor being able to step in and say, "Yeah, I know you elected these guys, but they don't agree with what I agree with, so fuck you all, you're all fired."

Do you have an issue with, "Hey, you guys severely fucked up because you voted it like a popularity contest and not who's better."?

[insertNameHere]

Do you have an issue with, "Hey, you guys severely fucked up because you voted it like a popularity contest and not who's better."?

Life isn't fair, it is also the same reason I graduated with honors and am losing out to people who have family members high up in organizations and are hardly qualified.


Just because is a qualified individual doesn't mean shit.

Who is to say that education wouldn't get worse because, maybe the Governor decided to lay off the teachers and the replacemetns were a joke

[FArchivist]

Do you have an issue with, "Hey, you guys severely fucked up because you voted it like a popularity contest and not who's better."?

You do realize you're advocating dictatorship of the elite over democracy, right?
Better qualified is a matter of opinion, really.

[Greenday]

You do realize you're advocating dictatorship of the elite over democracy, right?
Better qualified is a matter of opinion, really.

If someone has made a school system into a total failure, they aren't qualified.

[Hyena Dandy]

Okay, who decides if a school system is a total failure?

[Greenday]

Okay, who decides if a school system is a total failure?

When the majority of kids who come out of that school unable to read, doesn't know the map of the US, and can't do basic algebra, that school system failed.

I mean, isn't there a Dept. of Education? What are they there for?

[FArchivist]

When the majority of kids who come out of that school unable to read, doesn't know the map of the US, and can't do basic algebra, that school system failed.

I mean, isn't there a Dept. of Education? What are they there for?

In my state, the Department of Education is very small and doesn't rule over that, no. The curriculum and teaching methods and so on are done at the county level by your county Board of Education.

And your continuing focus on the school system is disingenuous and misleading. We are not talking about some fixing of a fucked-up school system. We are talking about the Governor sending in some dude who, according to the language of the bill, has the power to raise property taxes by 500% if he feels like, send the police around to confiscate all guns owned in the county, and jail whoever disagrees with him. And you would NOT have the ability to legally fight this because this bill places him Above The Law.

No one in the USA should have that type of power and that is the power this bill gives. I do not care what his intentions are. I do not care how fucked up the elected government is. If I support this, we might as well go back to feudalism. Or set up a fascist state.