Voting for Bush = stupid

[ebonyknight]

People who sell their souls like this are undeniable douchebags.

Most Americans, however, are good people. So to get around that pesky "democracy" issue, Bush and company needed to find a way to get normal, peace-loving Americans to vote for them. And they did so through a campaign of misinformation and fear. Hence my belief that the average Bush voter was ill-informed.

I hope that clears things up.

I don't see how anyone can't see a coincidence in the number of Terror alerts there were in the year prior to the 2K4 election and then there has been only 1 (in response to the London bombing) in the 4 years since!!!!!

If that isn't a clear cut example, I don't know what else could be said.

I personally believe in give me liberty or give me death. When the sniper shootings went on in this area. I didn't curtail my outdoor smoking habit (while others smoked in the garage and I stood alone), I didn't duck around the gas pumps. I didn't change my routine at all. I work at a place where we have had several reports of people stepping off the metro taking pictures of my workplace and immediately getting back on. I live with the possibility of OK City happening, daily. Do I quit my job? No.

I sincerely believe that life is a gift, not a right. I would (and have) given up my security for freedom.

IMHO, this is something that the Bush voters (that I was specifically speaking of) couldn't appreciate, because they have never really lived with the threat of danger.

[DesignFox]

Seriously, living in the US, I don't think we've ever really lived with the threat of danger.

We have had a few tragedies here or there, but our country is not torn apart by war. We do not have to worry that when we leave our houses, some terrorist nutjob is going to kidnap us...or shoot us...or whatever simply because we don't follow the tenets of that group. We don't have to live in fear of car bombs, mass destruction and suicide bombers. We just don't have the problems that certain countries are having.

Take a look at some of the African countries and what's been happening with guerilla warfare. Look at the Middle East and tell me that isn't the hugest mess you've ever seen. What about Sarajevo? What about WWII- war torn Germany?

We are a very lucky people. We haven't had bombs rained down on our homes before. We've had what...1 major terrorist attack in the last 8 years? (I'm not saying it wasn't tragic...it certainly was...and close to home for me, too)

The only people who maybe know what it's like to fear are the people who made it through WWI and WWII. THEY lived through war shortages and air raid drills. THEY had to make sacrifices. And you know what? They didn't let it stop their daily lives.

We shouldn't put our lives on hold because we had one major attack thrown at us by a handful of zealous shitheads. Trust me, if I ever am on a plane and some piece of shit asshole comes at me with a box cutter, you can bet I'll punch his fucking face in. Most Americans aren't going to sit idly by and let people do whatever they want. We're not afraid. We've learned our lesson- or should have.

What a waste of life to be burrowing for safety- especially when we have little to nothing to fear.

My BF and I made fun of those terrorist ratings like there was no tomorrow. "What color are we today, dear? Day-Glow Orange? What does that mean, I shouldn't take transit today?"

Either way this election goes, I'll be having a bye-bye Bush party on inaugeration day.

[blas87]

I believe every adult American has the right to vote for whomever he/she wants. He/She should be able to vote in privacy and not be chastized for whom he/she votes for.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to shove them down other people's throats...

My mom voted for Bush. I think it was a stupid thing to do....but she had every right to do it. No can tell you who or who not to vote for.

[DarthRetard]

I sincerely believe that life is a gift, not a right. I would (and have) given up my security for freedom.

Life is an inherent right that all men(and women, too) were born with. It's in the Lockean social contract.

However, we should never have to sacrifice freedom for security. We haven't had to in the past, and there's no real damned reason now. The administration is using fear as means of herding us into dangerous legislation like cows to the slaughter.

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." - Ben Franklin.

I support President Bush to the best of my ability, not his policies, but I try to support the man because I believe in dissent without hate. Yes, we Bush voters were misled, sad to say, because it destroys the integrity of our vote and at first glance can make us look like ignorant jackasses.

Boozy, I have to say that one of the many reasons Bush voters were uninformed was because he flat out fucking lied during campaigning. There were numerous times in debates with Gore in which he discussed how an interventionist foreign policy or a war in the middle east would bring us down in so many ways.

It's really easy for us to say it was a stupid thing to vote for him NOW, but back then, it was a different time, a different context, and a different situation, with different words being said.

[AFPheonix]

And yet you'd support someone who you admit flat out lied to you? There is no reason to support him, period.
I do hate liars. He's not exception. I strongly disliked him when he was voted in originally, rolled my eyes as he said asinine things until 9/11, and then hoped that he was up for the job at that point.
I had a glimmer of hope as I heard him talk that day, but it was quickly extinguished when he started his war drum for Iraq. Yes, he and Cheney lied. But you know what? A lot of those lies were pretty easily debunked. Hell, even the Daily Show caught some good whoppers before the 2004 elections, and they're not even a legitimate news organization.
We can blame the media, although a lot of media WERE getting the stories out that he was bad news if anyone would bother to listen. We can blame Bush himself for lying, but like I said, a little digging caught some pretty blatant surface lies.
People who voted for Bush, especially those in 2004 really have no one to blame if they're unhappy with his administration but themselves. The information was available.
I'll admit that I didn't like Kerry all that well either, although he got a bad deal from conservative press (swiftboat veterans for lying out our asses, anyone?) But I still would have happily taken a term of him over a term of Bush again.

[Boozy]

Boozy, I have to say that one of the many reasons Bush voters were uninformed was because he flat out fucking lied during campaigning. There were numerous times in debates with Gore in which he discussed how an interventionist foreign policy or a war in the middle east would bring us down in so many ways.

I said that anyone who voted for him in 2004 was uninformed. By 2004, I think most voters should have realized that he was corrupt and dishonest.

I still disagreed with him in 2000, and I would not have voted for him then if I'd been an American. But it wasn't as clear then as it was 4 years later.

[ebonyknight]

More fuel for the fire.

Bush's sacrifice for our soldiers

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_101595.html


As violence in Iraq continues -- clashes today left 11 dead and 19 injured -- President Bush has for the first time revealed the great sacrifice he's made for the sake of our soldiers: he's given up golf.

From an interview with Politico and Yahoo News:

"I don't want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander in chief playing golf," he said. "I feel I owe it to the families to be in solidarity as best as I can with them. And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal."


Bush said he made that decision after the August 2003 bombing of the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad, which killed Sergio Vieira de Mello, the top U.N. official in Iraq and the organization's high commissioner for human rights.

"I remember when de Mello, who was at the U.N., got killed in Baghdad as a result of these murderers taking this good man's life," he said. "I was playing golf -- I think I was in central Texas -- and they pulled me off the golf course and I said, 'It's just not worth it anymore to do.'"

Well at least it's better than Condi Rice buying shoes while her home state drowned.

[ebonyknight]

Life is an inherent right that all men(and women, too) were born with. It's in the Lockean social contract.

So who do I sue or complain to when I lose that right? And does this right extend to animals as well?

My point being that if you get killed, you have no recourse whether you have a "right" to live or not. I guess this is an abstract vs. reality argument.

But I guess I am digressing.

[DarthRetard]

EK, read our Declaration of Independence. It's well within our duty to defend our rights, and when those rights are violated, and when the contract is broken, we are well within our rights as human beings, not just Americans, to rise up and change it.

AFP, I support him as a person because I believe in the inherent desire of all men to be good, despite our many shortcomings. He's my Commander-In-Chief, and I'll support the next one that comes in, no matter how much we disagree or how much they lie, because we have to work together to preserve this nation I and others try to defend.

Boozy, I see now. Yes, Not even I was on his side in 04, I couldn't vote either way (age), but I certainly was a Howard Dean guy myself.

I'm not ashamed of my beliefs, and I don't hold a grudge against any of you who may think I'm an idiot. (Well....I used to be republican, but hey, even Hillary campagined for Goldwater!)

I'm thankful we can have discussions like this and not be persecuted for our beliefs. Let's try to bring back what America is supposed to hold sacred.

[protege]

We can't put all the blame on Bush for Iraq. What about *Congress* who voted to give him the war authority? Shouldn't they (including one John Kerry, "I voted for the war before I voted against it?") take some of the blame?

Also, we must consider another thing; even though it was well-known that Bush wanted to go after Saddam... most of that could have been stopped. However, at the time, given Iraq's suspicious behavior concerning possible WMDs or nuke programs, was it any surprise that we thought they existed? At the time, quite a bit of intelligence hinted at it. However, once it came out that there weren't any WMDs, the calls for war should have stopped. It didn't though--couldn't Congress have put their collective feet down?

I too don't think the US has really had the threat of danger. I mean, both WWI, II, Korea, Vietnam, et al didn't really harm us (our civilians) all that much. Except for the Lusitania (WWI) and Pearl Harbor, that is. For the most part, the wars we've come through those unscathed. Contrast that with Europe and Japan...

As for the terror ratings, consider those a knee-jerk reaction. They simply provided the *illusion* of security, and were largely ignored. I don't know about you all, but I'm not about to change the way I do things because some fanatic *might* attack us. If we spend all our lives worrying about whether or not some asshole is going to do something...the asshole has already won. Sorry, but I have other things to worry about--if the kitties have food, I have enough to meet my bills, etc.

On voting for him, I think that too many people remembered the Clinton years for all the wrong reasons. (I'm not trying to attack Clinton here, folks.) They might not have liked the sex scandals, Whitewater, the fact that his Balanced Budget Act drove several hospitals into bankruptcy, etc. and felt that Kerry might (not would) have perpetuated the same things. Plus, they might not have liked the drama surrounding his military service.

[IDrinkaRum]

I voted for Bush in 2004. Didn't get excited about the Democrat party (still am not excited by the Democrat party for many, many reasons).

Protege has an interesting point - Congress did help in this too. Hillary Clinton voting for the war, Kerry also.

Now, the Democrats are more worried about the anti-War kook groups than anything real Americans have to say.

I vote Republican. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I'm a conservative (not ashamed of that neither). I used to be a Liberal Democrat. I voted for Clinton both times. Actually, I would have voted for McCain if he'd been the Presidential candidate back in 2000. But he wasn't, we got Bush, and then after his election, we got 9/11.

Sure Bush wanted to go after Saddam. Congress could have crippled his effort. Congress could be crippling Bush's efforts even more now, but they're not. Is it because of their political ambitions? They either approve or not approve whatever Bush wants, then they go "See!? Bush is ineffective. <insert Democratic Candidate here> will be much better."

Of course there are lies in Government. It's been going on since the beginning of Government. American democracy and it's falsehoods and "stupid" policies is hardly the first government to be corrupt or unpopular or goes out of its way to make its citizens feel inferior (for whatever reason) and it won't be the last either.

[Boozy]

I'm not seeing much defense of Bush. Its more, 'Yeah, he's a right dick, but so are the Democrats."

That's a sad state of affairs.

[DesignFox]

Yea, Boozy. Things are in a right sorry state over here.

[Greenday]

The whole party system is a load of crap in my opinion. I'm glad to see more moderates who think for themselves coming out. The problem is, there are more blind idiots who vote for a party without giving a crap about the issues. There is a difference for voting for a group because you agree with their policies than agreeing with them just because you think you have to pick one or the other. Our choices for president have generally sucked and we definitely got screwed over in the 2004 election. Both candidates sucked.

[Amethyst Hunter]

Congress did help in this too. Hillary Clinton voting for the war, Kerry also.

Ah, but at the time, Congress was *controlled* by Republicans. Particularly the kind inclined to kiss Bush's ass by giving him carte blanche.

As for Clinton and Kerry, I doubt either of them honestly supported the war; most likely they voted for its funding because to deny funds for the troops would have been seen as anti-American. So either way, they lose: vote no, you're seen as against the troops. Vote yes, and you're accused of being a warmonger.

Besides, at least Clinton and Kerry *admit* they screwed up. That's a helluva lot more than we'll ever see from Bush & Co.