So why is drug testing wrong in this case?

[Tanasi]

The elected representative of the good folks of Florida passed a new law that was signed by the governor that requires the receiptients of welfare to submit to drug testing. An article about this is here
Personally I don't have a problem with this but according to one of my SILs this is wrong and will hurt familys primarily the children.

So why is drug testing to get welfare wrong?

[Rapscallion]

Don't drugs, and the abuse thereof, hurt children more? Surely if the parents are spending the welfare money on recreational pharmaceuticals then they can't spend it on their children. If they commit crimes to fund their habits and end up in jail, what then of the children?

Actually, I'm sounding a bit Fox Newsy here. I think the part about expecting the testee to foot the bill is ridiculous - they're on welfare and can't be expected to have much coin to spread around. Also, it shouldn't really be every person getting a particular benefit - the staff at the welfare offices should be able to spot obvious signs and have people required to take the test on a specific basis instead of a broad brush approach.

For example, someone loses their job and has to resort to welfare for a while until they get something else. Can't see any reason to apply testing there. Someone comes in scratching at meth mites on their arms and has unkempt children in tow, screaming at them every so often - fuck yes.

My problem with it is in the application, not the concept behind it.

Rapscallion

[Tanasi]

The folks that pass the drug test are refunded the costs of the drug test, those that don't pass well.... I guess that's just a little less money they'll have to spend upon their happy products.
Also those that fail are also offered rehab to get clean. To make it fair and prevent it being ruled arbitrary by the courts everyone would have to submit. Within my company everyone must submit for drug testing before being hired. Even getting so-called "free" money comes with some costs be it money or time.

[Eisa]

Hmm. I'm torn on that. I can see why people would say it's not fair. But on the other hand, the way they're applying it sounds fair. Pass and get refunded, fail and get offered rehab.

[kiwi]

I have no problem with people on welfare being drug tested in order to recieve state funds IF and only IF all other people who recieve state funds are also randomly drug tested. Including and espeically politicians. They suck off the teat of the government purse more than any welfare recipient.

[draggar]

While I am all for this, many of the legal medications my wife takes would make her fail a drug test.

I'm sure she's part of the .00000001% but there are a lot of pill mills here (I think we have the highest per capita in the nation?) who can make illegal drugs look legal.

[Tanasi]

I would think a valid excuse would be proof of perscription and a listing of OTC meds.

[FArchivist]

So why is drug testing to get welfare wrong?

Emotionalism aside...is it fair to deprive of food, shelter, and the other basic necessities of life if their mother shows positive for smoking a joint? Not to mention the inaccuracy of drug tests; for instance, if you are on Medicaid the wrong prescription can strip you of benefits for months.

But never mind that. You do this. The mom smokes a joint. She gets tested positive. As long as you're OK with the kids being kicked out of the Section 8 housing, going without meals, being unable to clothe themselves, not being able to receive proper medical care, go right ahead. Because that's what no welfare means: no Medicaid, no food stamps, no Section 8 housing, NADA. Oh, and your kid has a life-threatening condition like cerebral palsy? Tough shit. On the street without meds that kid goes.

We tried this in GA. It ended badly. Especially when it turned out that DFACS was getting bonuses for every child they put in foster care.

I would think a valid excuse would be proof of perscription and a listing of OTC meds.

No, that doesn't count. Or rather, it has to be verified by a few months of bureaucratic paperwork plus doctors plus blah blah, in which time you don't get to have the benefits.

[AdminAssistant]

I'm for it. I'd suggest instituting a warning system for low-level drug use (smoking a joint). But a meth head mom or dad? Put the kids in foster care. They'll be better off.

On a sorta related note, the town's homeless shelter is right in the middle of downtown. Also, it's what's called a wet shelter. Most shelters won't let you in unless you're 'clean' - not drunk or on drugs. Not us. So we get the worst junkies in this area, and far too many for the shelter to handle. So, they hang out in the parking lot. Right around where a lot of people are walking to go to the bars/restaurants downtown and then back home or to their cars. You can imagine how well that works out - rapes, theft, assault. Lovely.

[linguist]

The folks that pass the drug test are refunded the costs of the drug test,

getting their money refunded for passing is all well and good, but what are those who don't have the money to spend in the first place, refund or no, supposed to do?

[insertNameHere]

While I am all for this, many of the legal medications my wife takes would make her fail a drug test.

I'm sure she's part of the .00000001% but there are a lot of pill mills here (I think we have the highest per capita in the nation?) who can make illegal drugs look legal.

Well, you can't really "fail" the drug test if you have a prescription for something that they find. Lol my dad had to get a doctors note when the doctor had him hold a numbing compound on the back of his dead when he did something stupid and needed bunch of staples..... it wasn't till after it was already absorbing in his skin that that mentioned it was a derivative of cocaine. Just what you want in your system when your a cop who is likely to be drug tested.

But the way I see it, most government jobs drug test, to get in the military they drug test. most private employeers drug test so why the hell should someone on welfare be allowed to do drugs when to have a job i can't, move to a fucking country where it legal if you want to do them so bad!!!! I fucking hate all the people who come in with meth mouth and ask if we take EBT, at least i wasn't offered a chance to but their food stamps.

[Dreamstalker]

The broad-brush approach is wrong; besides treating everyone like a criminal, there are legitimate harmless substances that can pop an initial drug screen (but be sorted out in more detailed testing). Since it's out of pocket, even though someone may have gotten a false positive they won't want to pony up for the other tests (which would mean they have to live with the bad result).

The folks that pass the drug test are refunded the costs of the drug test

I'll believe that when it actually happens...I've been promised reimbursements before but when it came time to actually submit the paperwork it's "oh we never said that/you read this wrong".

[Greenday]

While I am all for this, many of the legal medications my wife takes would make her fail a drug test.

I'm sure she's part of the .00000001% but there are a lot of pill mills here (I think we have the highest per capita in the nation?) who can make illegal drugs look legal.

If they are legal, she wouldn't fail the drug test.

[Dreamstalker]

That depends on how thorough the test is (does it test for legal drugs and make sure they are classed as legal/therapeutic) and whether potential false positives are actually followed up on. Some examples of positives that aren't as clear-cut:

--Positive for marijuana...the person could have been around someone who smoked.
--Positive for opiates...poppyseed bagel could do it.
--Cough syrups could flag as a couple things.

While I agree with the testing, the 'cropdusting' approach is flawed and I don't trust an overburdened agency (at least here, they come up with all sorts of reasons to deny benefits and make it impossible to appeal unless you have the time/money to waste) to do it properly.

[IDrinkaRum]

For poppy-seed bagels (or anything with poppy-seeds in it): My husband works for the Fed. Gov't. He can be drug tested at any time. He avoids those like the plague.

I think if you know you're going to be randomly drug tested (of even if you're scheduled for it), you would do well to a) stop hanging around with your druggie friends (thereby not being around someone who smoked marijuana thereby not inhaling along with them) and b) avoiding something like a poppy-seed bagel before the test.

That might be "getting around the system" though. So not sure.

Of course the best course of action is to stop doing drugs/hanging around with druggies. But only in a perfect world would that actually happen.