US Credit Rating Downgraded

[guywithashovel]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...235575386.html

They have been saying this could happen, and I guess it did. *sigh*

I guess this is the end result of that debt-ceiling circus we've been watching for the last several weeks.

[insertNameHere]

Yeah, and did you see the stock market take a dip? It is funny people wonder how we got here but look even the government constantly spends more than they make. Nobody seems to be producing anything for export except our jobs.

[Gravekeeper]

When congress requires a presentation to even explain to them what a default is and why its bad, its not really a surprise. This whole thing has been a fiasco and for no other reason than political point scoring and fanatical ideology.

Its a level of ignorance, insanity and just frankly straight up raging stupidity thats downright embarrassing. I'm not even American and it drives me nuts watching it. -.-

Economics is not some sort of mysterious force whose wiles you can't hope to comprehend. It's a science. You don't argue over whose magic spells and voodoo rituals will fix it. You ask a friggan economist whats wrong then just do what they tell you to fix it. Economists said right from the outset that the best fix would be a balance of cuts and tax increases. They even laid out a recommended ratio. One of the plans brought forth by the Democrats and Obama was actually right on this ratio. But OMFG TAXES WHARGHARBL.

If nothing else though, congress and specifically Republicans, have proven that they do not give a shit about Americans themselves in any capacity. Just corporate donations and lobbyists.

[Andara Bledin]

If nothing else though, congress and specifically Republicans, have proven that they do not give a shit about Americans themselves in any capacity. Just corporate donations and lobbyists.

The report really does make no bones about the fact that the actions of those self-identifying as members of the Republican Party are at the heart of this issue.

^-.-^

[Gravekeeper]

The report really does make no bones about the fact that the actions of those self-identifying as members of the Republican Party are at the heart of this issue.

^-.-^

Yeah, S&P was very specific. >.>

[protege]

Yep, blame the Republicans, who only recently came into having a majority in Congress. Our country's spending issues have been going on a long time--since the 1930s in fact. At the time...debt was 300% of our GDP!

[Boozy]

Getting downgraded is embarrassing, but it's not going to have any long term impact. The US dollar is still the world's reserve currency. Even those countries with AAA ratings can't compete. Their economies aren't large enough.

[AdminAssistant]

Yep, blame the Republicans, who only recently came into having a majority in Congress. Our country's spending issues have been going on a long time--since the 1930s in fact.

The Republicans are standing in the way of the one single measure that can bring our economy back - Ending the Bush era tax cuts. We can only cut our domestic spending so much.* Sorry, but there are some domestic programs that we need. We need Social Security, Disability, Welfare, and Food Stamps, so that we don't have people starving to death, okay? We need a working mail system, safe roads and highways, and emergency services. We need Medicare and Medicaid, because a single-payer health insurance system is socialism and evil. Other programs on the chopping block, like the National Endowment for the Arts, National Public Radio, hell, even NASA, comprise such a small amount of the budget to be insignificant.

We have to bring in new revenue. That means raising taxes for the top income earners, oh, excuse me, job creators. It's the only way.

* Boehner's head would spin at the mere thought of cutting military spending. Even if it were just eliminating our bases in Japan, who, y'know, doesn't even want us there anymore.

ETA: Oh yes, that terrible spending in the 1930's. Those horrible social welfare programs that kept people alive during the Great Depression and Dust Bowl. How terrible! How awful! We should have just let everyone in Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas starve to death!!

[protege]

The Republicans are standing in the way of the one single measure that can bring our economy back - Ending the Bush era tax cuts. We can only cut our domestic spending so much.*

The "Bush era tax cuts" which were *continued* by Obama? They're his tax cuts now

Sorry, but there are some domestic programs that we need. We need Social Security, Disability, Welfare, and Food Stamps, so that we don't have people starving to death, okay? We need a working mail system, safe roads and highways, and emergency services. We need Medicare and Medicaid, because a single-payer health insurance system is socialism and evil.

I agree, there are some of these programs we need. However, we're going to have to seriously streamline some of them. For example, do we really need Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare? Why don't we combine them all, and scrap the rest? Such duplication of services really isn't accomplishing much, other than needlessly wasting money.

We have to bring in new revenue. That means raising taxes for the top income earners, oh, excuse me, job creators. It's the only way.

...and that's where the problem is. The top income earners do not create most of the jobs in the US. That's up to small businesses, most of whom are feeling the heat of higher taxes. Taxing the hell out of them isn't going to create jobs, nor is it going to grow the economy.

Even if it were just eliminating our bases in Japan, who, y'know, doesn't even want us there anymore.

However, if we leave, do you really think North Korea won't be a problem? Also, we're not only in Japan--we've been in Europe since 1945. Yet, nobody seems to have a problem keeping those bases open. Why not close all of those bases, bring our soldiers home, and be done with it?

ETA: Oh yes, that terrible spending in the 1930's. Those horrible social welfare programs that kept people alive during the Great Depression and Dust Bowl. How terrible! How awful! We should have just let everyone in Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas starve to death!!

They might have kept people alive...but it was the beginning of deficit spending. Sure, it helped in the short term to get things moving, but it became a problem over the long term--it tends to grow. Plus, the constant printing of cash isn't helping matters. All that's doing, is devaluing our currency...which some countries want to replace as the reserve currency.

[Sleepwalker]

/sigh. Destroying our infrastructure is going to impoverish far more people than higher taxes will, and an impoverished population cannot support a wealthy nation. When you look at the two monsters of debt creation, it is the military,medicare and SLASHED TAXES. Fucking around with defunding nasa and food stamps is not going to do jack shit. Whining about how raising taxes to the levels they were before, during eras of great prosperity, is not going to help a good god damn. Stopping a war or two? Yeah. That might help. Raising taxes on the wealthiest, who aren't creating jobs now anyway but instead are sitting on their wealth until someone else improves the economy? Yeah, that too.

Meanwhile, our citizens are growing up uneducated, unhealthy, and unemployed. And people whine about the mother fucking debt. I guess these fuckers stop buying food when they have an emergency room bill they can't pay. And god forbid that the parents work overtime when little susy needs leg braces. Bitch oughta live within her means.

[Gravekeeper]

The "Bush era tax cuts" which were *continued* by Obama? They're his tax cuts now

You mean the ones where Obama wanted to extend the middle class tax cuts but let the upper class ones expire and the Republicans lost their shit? Forcing Obama to yet again act like the only adult in the room and compromise so the tax cuts for the middle class didn't expire too? -.-

For example, do we really need Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare? Why don't we combine them all, and scrap the rest? Such duplication of services really isn't accomplishing much, other than needlessly wasting money.

It would never happen, unfortunately. No offence to anyone, but the American people as a whole aren't informed enough to not flip the fuck out over it. The only thing they would interpret from it would be A) OMFG DER TAKIN' MA MEDICARE and B) SOCIALIAZM!

You'd save a ridiculous amount of money if you actually managed to switch over to free health care like the rest of the western world.

...and that's where the problem is. The top income earners do not create most of the jobs in the US. That's up to small businesses, most of whom are feeling the heat of higher taxes. Taxing the hell out of them isn't going to create jobs, nor is it going to grow the economy.

When were taxes raised on small businesses?

Also, we're not only in Japan--we've been in Europe since 1945. Yet, nobody seems to have a problem keeping those bases open. Why not close all of those bases, bring our soldiers home, and be done with it?

Yeah, not much point in having bases still open in Japan and Europe.

All that's doing, is devaluing our currency...which some countries want to replace as the reserve currency.

Heh, I saw China trolling with that >.>

[HYHYBT]

Economics is not some sort of mysterious force whose wiles you can't hope to comprehend. It's a science. You don't argue over whose magic spells and voodoo rituals will fix it. You ask a friggan economist whats wrong then just do what they tell you to fix it.

Call it a science if you like, but it's far from exact, and not all economists agree.

[protege]

And people whine about the mother fucking debt.

There's a reason why people are going on about the debt. If the US hadn't raised the debt ceiling, our government would have to default. That would mean that about 40% of funding various programs would be immediately be cut. Plus, it would make it more difficult to borrow money from other countries. If we were to default, they'd raise interest rates. All of the uncertainty made the financial markets react quite badly--nearly everything was down on Thursday and Friday. In fact, the Dow Jones average...was down about 4% (513 points--the worst one-day drop since 2008). I know, because I watched it unfold at work. Truly a mess as investors tried to move their clients' money into different investments.

[Sleepwalker]

People weren't going on a bout the debt, they were going on about the US stopping payments. Two different things- I make loan payments, but am not 'in debt' since I have enough funds to currently pay it all off. As the US apparently is under the impression that it would be double plus good to stop payments on all social infrastructure in order to pay down debt, I'd say that the majority of people involved in this mess are economic retards. Either way, this country goes down the fucking tubes.

[Racket_Man]

The "Bush era tax cuts" which were *continued* by Obama? They're his tax cuts now

You mean the ones where Obama wanted to extend the middle class tax cuts but let the upper class ones expire and the Republicans lost their shit? Forcing Obama to yet again act like the only adult in the room and compromise so the tax cuts for the middle class didn't expire too? -.-

you are both kind of correct but not all the way correct. back in Dec 2010 Obama wanted to push through an extension of the Federal UE benefits (ya know for the people who have been out of work for 18 months or 2 years). the Republicans threatened to kill that bill IF Obama did not let the Bush tax cuts get renewed.

so yes he "renewed" them but under the threat of blackmail of other vulernable US people who were hurt in the meltdown.