PFB - well this one needs some popcorn

[Andara Bledin]

Let's do a little math, here.

The minimum wage average in the US comes out to around about $7.50/hour, which comes to around $15,000 in annual salary.

So, for every $1,000,000 in bonus that some already-millionaire CEO gets, they could have paid for more than 65 people to have at least a minimum wage job for an entire year. For what Donahoe got in bonuses alone, they could have afforded to create jobs for nearly 800 people.

^-.-^

[Gravekeeper]

Let's do a little math, here.
The minimum wage average in the US comes out to around about $7.50/hour, which comes to around $15,000 in annual salary.

Gah, 7.50? Wow. Wasn't there a couple of GOP congressman talking about lowering it too? Your dollar is weaker than Canada's at the moment too so that's only 7.41 Canadian, and I know the cost of living is higher in a lot of places there too. =/

By comparison, the minimum wage here is $8.75 and is being increased to $9.50 next month. Then increased again next year to $10.25 ( 10.37 US ). I also haven't worked for minimum wage since I was 14, and its not like I have degrees or anything.

This thread is depressing ;p

[Boozy]

So, for every $1,000,000 in bonus that some already-millionaire CEO gets, they could have paid for more than 65 people to have at least a minimum wage job for an entire year. For what Donahoe got in bonuses alone, they could have afforded to create jobs for nearly 800 people.

...and then what?

I don't know if eBay has made a good business decision or not, but what I will say is that 800 people with minimum wage skills do not provide the same value as someone with CEO skills. In some cases they may be more valuable to the company, and in some cases less, but their contributions are not equivalent just because their salaries are.

By that logic, I should be able to cobble together a neurosurgeon by collecting 50 or so McDonald's employees.

[Gravekeeper]

...and then what?

I don't know if eBay has made a good business decision or not, but what I will say is that 800 people with minimum wage skills do not provide the same value as someone with CEO skills.

Ehh, but that assumes that minimum wage jobs are universally calling for minimum wage skills at the moment. Which I'm not convinced is occuring in the US right now with the economy. I'm sure there's a decent chunk of people being underpaid for their skill set these days.

In some cases they may be more valuable to the company, and in some cases less, but their contributions are not equivalent just because their salaries are.

800 people with minimum wage skills could run the bulk of several CSR support centres for you. eBay/Paypal actually has one of them here in Van and I have a few old classmates that have worked there straight out of high school as CSRs with minimum wage skills.

Whether or not that's an equal contribution is a nebulous argument at best though. Hard to argue either way as there's little definitive information to work from. But look at it this way: This dude's normal salary is about 900k. But he got 12 million in bonuses. Over 12 times his normal pay. That doesn't sound a tad excessive?

Fact of the matter is your economy stagnates when your money doesn't move around and major companies in the US are in gold rush mode. Trying to make and horde as much profit as possible under the current rules and situation before the cookie jar gets taking away. At which point they will reluctantly start participating again. But by then they'll just be a smoldering crater where your economy was.

They're not interested in helping you reinforce the bridge, they're interested in burning it down because there's gold buried under it and no one made arson illegal yet. ;p

[mikoyan29]

...and then what?

I don't know if eBay has made a good business decision or not, but what I will say is that 800 people with minimum wage skills do not provide the same value as someone with CEO skills. In some cases they may be more valuable to the company, and in some cases less, but their contributions are not equivalent just because their salaries are.

By that logic, I should be able to cobble together a neurosurgeon by collecting 50 or so McDonald's employees.

There are good and bad CEOs like anything else in life. A good CEO will pay for his salary and then some. A bad CEO will cost way more than his salary. The problem is that many CEOs seem to treat their companies and their own personal ATM and will drain whatever cash they can. Just look at one of the prouder franchises in baseball....before their current CEO took over, they were fairly profitable and now they are losing money because of loans he made against the team.

And quite honestly, I don't have a problem with a person that starts a company from nothing and makes millions or billions. He deserves that. I have more of a problem with the rented goon that seems to be prevalent since the 80's. They see a company flush with cash buy it out, steall the cash and ship the jobs off to China.

[Andara Bledin]

Ehh, but that assumes that minimum wage jobs are universally calling for minimum wage skills at the moment.

That was just an idea of how many people could benefit off the largesse that one company pays to a single person who, to be honest, doesn't really need it (and who may or may not actually deserve it) and isn't going to do much to support the economy which is failing to recover due to things just like this.

Rather than paying their people decent wages and ensuring that they have enough people that their employees aren't overworked and overstressed, they're giving massive bonuses to the people at the top.

^-.-^

[Rageaholic]

Ehh, but that assumes that minimum wage jobs are universally calling for minimum wage skills at the moment. Which I'm not convinced is occuring in the US right now with the economy. I'm sure there's a decent chunk of people being underpaid for their skill set these days.

*Raises hand*

Last time I checked, the minimum wage sector was very demanding. There wasn't a such thing as "entry level" job (and if there was, you'd be competing with hundreds of other people with more experience). It's a catch 22. You need experience to get work, but you need work to get experience. This is why I've had one hell of a time getting hired. I'm hoping that will change, but with borders going out of business, that means even more people scrambling to find jobs. It's very discouraging, especially when considering that minimum wage isn't that much after taxes. Yet, it's those who are already bathing in dollar bills who get tax breaks?! WTF!

We deserve better than this.

[mikoyan29]

*Raises hand*

Last time I checked, the minimum wage sector was very demanding. There wasn't a such thing as "entry level" job (and if there was, you'd be competing with hundreds of other people with more experience). It's a catch 22. You need experience to get work, but you need work to get experience. This is why I've had one hell of a time getting hired. I'm hoping that will change, but with borders going out of business, that means even more people scrambling to find jobs. It's very discouraging, especially when considering that minimum wage isn't that much after taxes. Yet, it's those who are already bathing in dollar bills who get tax breaks?! WTF!

We deserve better than this.

Well that's because a guy lke the CEO of Google is a "job creator" don't you know? This morning I was listening to one of the Republicans talk about Obama's proposal to reduce the Payroll Tax a little more. It's amazing that these folks can defend tax cuts that mostly benefit the rich but will slam a tax cut that will benefit everyone who works.

[Rageaholic]

It's amazing that these folks can defend tax cuts that mostly benefit the rich but will slam a tax cut that will benefit everyone who works.

Or just ignore them and focus on Obama's birth certificate and other unimportant crap.

[Mytical]

I have to disagree that 800 minimum wage people are not worth as much as a CEO. The corporations are sort of shooting themselves in the foot, then wondering why they are bleeding. Let me explain.

As jobs are cut, less money circulates. Less money means less people to afford goods/services/etc. That one person getting millions will just simply not spend as much as 800 people getting paid minimum wage. So yes, in the very very short term..companies firing people will cut costs and and make more money. Great, awesome. But paying people 30 cents an hour will eventually..oh hey wait..it is already catching up with these companies..nm.

[HYHYBT]

You have to pay what people are willing to work for. If eBay were to cut their CEO's salary enough to hire this 65 or 800 or whatever other people, the CEO would quit. Where are you going to find someone both willing and able to run your company as well as possible for far less than they could get at any number of your competitors? Where are those 65 or 800 or whatever people going to work in a couple years if the guy willing to be CEO for significantly below market rate runs the company into the ground?

[mikoyan29]

You have to pay what people are willing to work for. If eBay were to cut their CEO's salary enough to hire this 65 or 800 or whatever other people, the CEO would quit. Where are you going to find someone both willing and able to run your company as well as possible for far less than they could get at any number of your competitors? Where are those 65 or 800 or whatever people going to work in a couple years if the guy willing to be CEO for significantly below market rate runs the company into the ground?

I seem to recall the folks at Lehman Brothers were paid pretty well too. Now where is that these days? Bill Ford Jr. is getting paid $1 (in salary....he's getting other perks) and Ford is doing quite well now.

[HYHYBT]

I didn't say paying your executives a lot guaranteed they'd do a good job, only that the best ones are very likely to expect to be well-paid. There are, of course, exceptions. (I believe Steve Jobs was on that dollar salary thing when he first returned to Apple, too. But as with Ford, there were other considerations.)

[mikoyan29]

I didn't say paying your executives a lot guaranteed they'd do a good job, only that the best ones are very likely to expect to be well-paid. There are, of course, exceptions. (I believe Steve Jobs was on that dollar salary thing when he first returned to Apple, too. But as with Ford, there were other considerations.)

But it also helps that some executives serve on the boards of directors of other companies and therefore can insure that they get the salaries they want. I remember reading a stat somewhere that some boards get about 10% of the company's profits. So we are talking about 10 or so people getting a good chunk of the company's money. Are these people seriously worth that much money?

[Boozy]

Are these people seriously worth that much money?

I don't know if that's the right way to look at things.

Sometimes it's not, "How much are they worth?" but rather, "Whose money is it, then?"

The board of directors for many companies comprise of 30, 40, 50 year veterans. People who sacrificed every moment of their youths to build that company from the bottom up. If they aren't owed the profits, then who is?

Other long-established companies have relatively youthful boards. Some of these people are undoubtably overpaid, sometimes they aren't, but that's up to the board and shareholders to decide. After taxes and debts are paid, a company's proceeds are theirs to do with what they'd like.

Employees of a company often complain about lack of profit-sharing, but that's not entirely fair. They accepted a job for X amount of compensation, and their company is presumably keeping their end of the bargain. If they'd accepted the job and agreed to be reimbursed in stock, then they'd be getting a share of the big profits in big years. Unfortunately, that's also a big risk.

I'm not some extreme free-market capitalist, for the record. I'm a big fan of lots of government oversight. I'm not even against a little righteous rage now and then. I was disgusted at the Big Auto execs who took private jets to beg for money from Congress. The public backlash was justified.

But I don't like witch hunts, and there's a lot of that going on in America lately. CEOs are not the enemy.