Are you Liberal or Conservative or somewhere in between?

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

I get where you're coming from Andara and I agree but I would like to remind you and everyone else that Gravekeeper is, like myself, a Canadian.

The Canadian political system is generally a lot more sane and rational than the American one, especially when it comes to things like abortion, gay marriage and so forth.

During the last Federal Election campaign, Stephen Harper (A conservative mind you) damned near threatened to disown a party member who suggested steps be taken to defund planned parenthood because they provide abortions.

This is of course, a common position of many U.S. Republicans.

Fact is, even CONSERVATIVE politicians in Canada are Liberal commies compared to many of the Republicans down here today.

Canada has had plenty of political bullshit of course, but in all my time living there I do not recall things ever being as batshit crazy as they are down here right now.

I suspect Gravekeeper agrees with me.

[Rapscallion]

Fact is, even CONSERVATIVE politicians in Canada are Liberal commies compared to many of the Republicans down here today.

Similar for the position in the Yurp states.

Rapscallion

[guywithashovel]

I've heard a lot about how the American concept of liberal and conservative is different from the concepts held in the rest of the world. I've also heard that in Canada, many of the conservatives would be considered liberal in the US. I've also heard it said that Obama would be deemed conservative in Canada and other parts of the globe. That may shock some people, but it shouldn't. Obama is really not that liberal even by American standards. I mean, take a look at that jobs bill he's pushing. Except for additional taxes for the top earners, any Republican could have authored it.

Anyway, I have to ask, what sorts of policies might a Canadian liberal support? What about a British liberal, or a liberal in any other country?

[Rapscallion]

There are things about the US that shock me - coming from this perspective.

Holidays/vacation - I was astounded to find that people getting more than ten paid days off work a year was uncommon. I'm guaranteed 28 by law (bank holidays to come out of that) - I actually get 33. Yes, all paid. Goes to 34 next year.

Tax everyone for a national health care type system - not this affordable bollocks that puts money into the pockets of big business, but something run for the benefit of everyone so that everyone can attend a dentist, a primary care physician, or a hospital as and when they actually need it. Sure, you could come up with a better system that we have, as ours is suffering from 'reforms' every time a politician wants to look as if they're doing something, but when you get minimum wage and have to pay out of that for health care? The tax I pay isn't that huge as a percentage of my income.

A minimum wage that goes up with inflation. I may be wrong, but I understand that the US minimum wage hasn't altered in some time, though that can vary from state to state.

Of course, you can pay for extra on top with private firms, but the government would be obliged to provide the basic needs of the people. There's probably more. Do you have guranteed care for the elderly in a nursing home over there?

Of course, the clarion cry will erupt as it always does that this is going to cost jobs and everyone's going to see increased prices and the US will become less competitive. Meh - Yurp's been doing the above for some time and we're not doing badly - if it affects everyone equally then it's no burden. Our citizens are generally speaking better off in terms of benefits, though again there is variance from country to country. I fully expect complaints about how this is socialist and therefore evil to come forth, but what's wrong with making sure that your citizens are fit and healthy? What's wrong with the benefit of time off from work?

Why is it that every time I look at the US, I see people proclaiming with one mouth 'we the people' and with another mouth saying that the citizens there shouldn't have similar rights and freedoms? Oh, you've got rights - rights to starve or go into crippling debt if you can't afford treatment. "We the people who can afford" is a better way of putting it. "My fellow americans who aren't inconveniently ill" is another.

The truly scary thing? There are people who would benefit from the adoption of the ideas above or similar who would benefit from their enaction, but would vote against it with all their heart and passion. Why? I can't say for sure, but the old spectre of communism and socialism reared by McCarthy still lingers in the US psyche, and the US is one of the most xenophobic places in the world. Don't want those funny foreign ideas coming in.

Rapscallion

[lordlundar]

I'm not too sure about the Canadian Liberal party as they've been pretty quiet since the last election and were more intent on getting back in power than actually doing anything before that.

[Andara Bledin]

I get where you're coming from Andara and I agree but I would like to remind you and everyone else that Gravekeeper is, like myself, a Canadian.

I'm quite aware, thanks. It's just that I find that he is far more conversant with the way of American politics than the vast majority of my fellow countrymen.

Obama is really not that liberal even by American standards.

Obama is a "dirty liberal" to every conservative with an axe to grind and an inability or unwillingness to learn any actual facts. And he's a "traitor to his party" to every liberal who doesn't think he's liberal enough. His policies are actually quite moderate and in a sane country, he'd likely be able to get quite a bit done. Unfortunately, we're not currently a sane country and rather than let things actually get done, one side would rather burn it all down than let anything good happen under his watch, and the other side just can't get their shit together enough to actually make what needs to happen actually happen.

Why is it that every time I look at the US, I see people proclaiming with one mouth 'we the people' and with another mouth saying that the citizens there shouldn't have similar rights and freedoms?

That would be "we the 1% and the rest of us who can't figure out that they're screwing us."

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

I may be wrong, but I understand that the US minimum wage hasn't altered in some time, though that can vary from state to state.

It went up about two years ago for the first time since 1995. Well, not quite: I think it went up a little and then the rest six months or a year later, but it was passed at the same time.

The whole "the country's in the toilet, and we'd rather flush than risk The Enemy getting credit for fishing it out" business is sickening. Surely, SURELY it wasn't like that 50 years ago? Please tell me it wasn't.

[blas87]

There's no room in politics for an honest, sane person of either side of the spectrum. Only lunatics on both side.

I'm ashamed of President Obama and his police station bombing, Hitler Youth czars as much as I am ashamed of the bigotted front runners for the Republican side of the election.

[mikoyan29]

There's no room in politics for an honest, sane person of either side of the spectrum. Only lunatics on both side.

I'm ashamed of President Obama and his police station bombing, Hitler Youth czars as much as I am ashamed of the bigotted front runners for the Republican side of the election.

As they like to say, we get the government we deserve. People are too apathetic to care about the reasonable voices out there. It is only the batshit crazy voices that get heard it seems.

[FArchivist]

There's no room in politics for an honest, sane person of either side of the spectrum. Only lunatics on both side.

I'm ashamed of President Obama and his police station bombing, Hitler Youth czars as much as I am ashamed of the bigotted front runners for the Republican side of the election.

Bwah?
When did a police station get bombed?
And what 'czars' are members of the Hitler Youth?
*truly puzzled*

[blas87]

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/05/16/o...-affiliations/

There's my research.

I will stop by later and see who de-bunks it because it came from a conservative webpage.

[FArchivist]

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/05/16/o...-affiliations/

There's my research.

I will stop by later and see who de-bunks it because it came from a conservative webpage.

Well, I don't think it's wrong because it comes from a conservative webpage. Obama certainly has czars and has appointed quite a few. It's a common practice in Washington DC; czars were first appointed in 1920s and 1930s by Presidents.

But I can't say I'm seeing anything there about bombing police stations or the Hitler Youth.

Edit: Unless you're talking about Bill Ayers during the 1960s for the police bombing bit?

[blas87]

Yes. I heard that on the radio a while back.

[Andara Bledin]

his police station bombing

Citation, please.

Hitler Youth czars

Citation, please.

I will stop by later and see who debunks it because it came from a conservative web page.

That site lists Obama's czars and acts like this is some huge thing that he brought to the picnic. Never mind that we've had them since the 1930's. And never mind that until the last administration, there were fewer than a dozen per administration (usually only a few), and it was George W Bush who took it from single digits up into the 30s.

What I do find intriguing is that the site goes on to list so many different individuals, but not all of them. However could they have missed those? One would think any proper journalist writing an article on "each of Obama's czars" wouldn't have managed to miss two of them entirely.

Debunking has nothing to do with who or where something comes from and everything to do with how much, or little, truth and accuracy is involved.

^-.-^

[blas87]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81027

That would be the former Hitler youth.

Apparently, the police bomber and his fellow terrorist wife are only good buddy croonies of Obama and not czars. The wife worked for Michelle Obama previously.

Cass was one I was struggling to name as well. He's a scary one as well.

Anyone who associates themselves with those kinds of people isn't anyone I want running the country.