MS & Personhood At Conception

[Akasa]

Its MY body. If I don't want to carry a baby to term I shouldn't be forced to. Personally I would give the baby up for adoption, but I shouldn't be forced to carry it. And this MS law would have made it illegal to terminate ectopic pregnancies. Do you know what those are? Let me tell you. Those are pregnancies that will NEVER come to term. In fact if left alone it will KILL both the mother and the fetus. So an abortion is needed, but under this law it would have been illegal. So countless women would have needlessly died because some assholes had it in their minds not even the life of the mother was more important than the BABY!

That's the kind of thinking that disgusts me about the pro-choice movement. It's all about the BABY screw the life of the mother! She's just an incubator to MAKE BABIES!

[fireheart17]

That's the kind of thinking that disgusts me about the pro-choice movement. It's all about the BABY screw the life of the mother! She's just an incubator to MAKE BABIES!

I think you mean pro-life

Pro-choice folk consider the mothers rights.

[HYHYBT]

Abortion is the killing of human life.

Before using that as a basis for arguing against abortion, at the barest minimum you need to change it to "abortion is the killing of a person." After all, every cell of the body is human life, even cancerous ones.

And before you have any reasonable expectation of those on the other side taking you seriously in any way, you need to prove that the zygote or whatever is indeed a person. Not a potential person, not something that is gradually becoming a person, but a person, as-is. That's *prove,* not merely state, and no cheating by passing laws to declare it so or anything like that.

[Akasa]

I think you mean pro-life

Pro-choice folk consider the mothers rights.

You're right, I was worked up.

[SkullKing]

Not to mention we already have too many people in this planet.

Superpopulation is a very real and very grave problem

[bara]

You're right, I was worked up.

Understandable, its a charged subject.

[fireheart17]

You're right, I was worked up.

That's understandable, abortion is always a hot-button topic.

I just didn't want someone to come on here and get hte wrong idea about pro-choice folks

[FArchivist]

Abortion is the killing of human life.

According to which definition of life?

Most abortions are done out of convience.

Wrong.

Who put their own needs above the life of the child growing inside them.

If you don't put your own needs first, you will be unable to meet the needs of your children.

People who do abortions are not doctors in the literal sense.

That is not true.

The Hippocratic oath states "First, do no harm." Well, killling a growing baby in incubation is doing harm.

That depends entirely on how you define "harm". When an abortion occurs, it is primarily because letting the fetus grow to full term and be born would cause more harm than aborting would. "Harm" is an extremely complex thing to calculate.

The common side effect of the woman not bearing anymore children is doing harm.

This is not a common side effect. That is a myth.

It doesn't take that much talent to take a vaccum tube and suck the child's brains out.

Even though that's not what occurs, that is frankly untrue. It would take GREAT skill to be able to do that.

These abortion mills make millions of dollars per year! An abortion costs several hundred dollars, they aren't free!

From the myth link above.

Myth:
People who do abortions make a lot of money. They just want my money. They don't care about me.

Fact:
The cost of abortion has risen much less than the cost of most other medical procedures. Abortion providers generally charge less for their services than physicians in other specialties.

Now I and my wife want children of our own and cannot have any, and I would love to have a child of our own. This is why I get so pissed off at these pro choice people. Unfortunately most of the people that are anti-kill you baby crowd are chucklehad Christians which makes the anti-abortion people that much easier to bash.

1) IVF is your friend.
2) Adoption is an option, if you have the money.
3) You have personal problems and you want to use those as an excuse to force others to have children? That's morally disgusting.

Dont kill your child. There are many people who want to adopt.

It ain't that easy. Adoption first requires the consent of BOTH parents and the agreement of a court to sever parental rights. THEN, if someone wants to adopt a kid, it costs at least $30-40K to do so - something you probably already know if you can't have children and want one and have researched adoption.

You're doing a lot of talking out your ass here.

[Nyoibo]

Abortion is the killing of human life.

Unless it can survive on its own, it's a parasite, no one bats an eye at destroying any other parasite living in the body.

People who do abortions are not doctors in the literal sense. The Hippocratic oath states "First, do no harm." Well, killling a growing baby in incubation is doing harm.

No, it doesn't actually state that.

Modern version
"I WILL FOLLOW that method of treatment which according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patient and abstain from whatever is harmful or mischievous"

Another modern version
"I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism"

Clasic version
"I will apply dietic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice"

Original translation
"I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone."

Advents in modern medicine have rendered many parts of the hippocratic oath obsolete.

[fireheart17]

Original translation
"I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone."

Advents in modern medicine have rendered many parts of the hippocratic oath obsolete.

Thank you, I just thought of something that would definitely render that obsolete: chemotherapy. Or any form of immunosuppression. That is doing harm to the patient by wiping out their bodies defence system so they can introduce a lifesaving measure and not have the body reject it.