I wonder if anyone will get arrested?

[bara]

I don't know how accurate this is.

Or if people are just saying stupid things. But at the very least if anyone of these people actually attempt election fraud then they have rock solid proof.
Election tampering is bad.

[Rapscallion]

Not many people claim the Teabaggers are clever.

Raspcallion

[BlaqueKatt]

I find it interesting that the actions of a few(in this case they have 4 people, talking not even acting on it yet-it takes five to meet the legal definition of conspiracy), are all of a sudden the entire groups doing, when it's the group one is opposed to, yet when it's a group one supports(OWS Protestors anyone?), "the few bad apples aren't part of the group/their actions aren't indicative of the group as a whole."

I don't like double standards.

[Rapscallion]

If you've got proof that the OWS people are conspiring to break the law, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Rapscallion

[Hyena Dandy]

BK is right, this isn't all of the tea party.

But this sickens me. It really, really, totally disgusts me that they're talking about doing this. That anyone thinks that this is acceptable is incredibly offensive.

However, this is worse than anything that OWS has done. These people, however many of them there are, are talking about actively trying to subvert the democratic process. If there had been some sort of procedural maneuvering to make Scott Walker unrecallable, that I would not care as much about. But this isn't trying to change the rules. Its outright breaking them.

These people are probably relatively normal, too. This shows how far this country has fallen into the self-destructive, us-versus-them mentality. These people who are probably, I would suspect, relatively intelligent, normal people have decided that its acceptable to take someone else's political voice away from them. And why? One of the screenshots explains it. The "Real" citizens. Its reached a point that people you disagree with aren't 'real' citizens of your country. They don't deserve a voice because they're not 'Real' Wisconsonites or whatever.

There are two important parts of a country's political make-up. The system, and the culture. I love our system. I really like the way the American system is set-up. I'd make some changes, but I think its one of the best in the world. Its not the system that is the problem. Its the culture. Its the fact that we no longer consider our political opponents people.

These people are criminals, and they should be put in jail. And I sincerely hope that any influential people in the Tea Party in Wisconsin who act as spokespeople will denounce this, and do everything in their power to stop it.

This is truly horrifying to me, as an American, as a believer in the Democratic process, this is horrifying to me as a human being.

This is indefensible. If they're ACTUALLY doing this, these people should be thrown in prison. If they're not, they should just be very, very ashamed of themselves for even suggesting that its something that's okay to do.

Edit:

If you've got proof that the OWS people are conspiring to break the law, I'd be interested in seeing it.

This isn't the entirety of the tea party. This looks like just ten members of it. Unless they're posting it on Facebook or something stupid like that, you won't find out. I don't think that was BK's point. I think her point was that what we have here is a small number of people who are being conflated with the majority of the tea party. Whereas if there are a small number of people in OWS who are conspiring to break the law, its immediately pointed out that they don't represent EVERYONE.

Of course, it does happen both ways. But 'balanced' is not the same as 'fair'.

[Rapscallion]

I'll admit that I'm biased towards OWS. From what I can tell, OWS started as a grass roots movement formed because of a massive disparity in levels of wealth, because the rich people in finance circles fouled up the conomy, were bailed out, and remain in positions of wealth with nifty large bonuses. OWS have thought about the issues and decided to make a stand for everyone.

The Tea Party are apparently a grass roots movement with what appears to be an aim of maintaining people who aren't them in positions of extreme wealth at the expense of themselves and everyone else.

Sure, I'm biased. I don't feel any shame in this.

Rapscallion

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

There are two important parts of a country's political make-up. The system, and the culture. I love our system. I really like the way the American system is set-up. I'd make some changes, but I think its one of the best in the world. Its not the system that is the problem. Its the culture. Its the fact that we no longer consider our political opponents people.

I have to disagree with you here. The system is unfairly tilted in favour of the the rich and the privileged. When the mere cost of running for elected office practically eliminates the average person from even making an attempt, you've got a problem.

It's not like that in other countries. Generally speaking, I much prefer the Canadian political system. Yes we have douchebag politicians like any other country, but in general I feel Canadian politicians do a better job of working for the people.

[Hyena Dandy]

I have to disagree with you here. The system is unfairly tilted in favour of the the rich and the privileged. When the mere cost of running for elected office practically eliminates the average person from even making an attempt, you've got a problem.

Yes, that is a problem. But when I said THE problem, I meant 'what is causing behavior like this'.

I would be happy discuss the matter of Canadian vs American political system in another thread. Its a topic I've stayed out of because sometimes I find it rather emotional, and so I don't talk about it.

What I meant, though, is that THIS is not caused by the system. What we're seeing here is an effect of the culture that has risen up in this country since 9/11. Its a culture where being 'ideologically pure' is better than being right. We were attacked by ideologues, and to fight them, became ideologues. That kept us together when the ideology we were uniting behind was "Let's not blow up Americans, that's a douche move." We changed our culture so that it required a 'Big Bad'. But now we no longer have a direct threat. Bin Laden's dead, dictatorships in the middle east are falling, we haven't been attacked in years. Yes, there have been attempts, but that's not scary. So the Big Bad is no longer the terrorists. We've turned on ourselves.

OWS have thought about the issues and decided to make a stand for everyone.

I understand what you're saying, I think its not phrased very well, though. Because the Occupy probably has a lot of reasonable people taking a stand because they think its what's right. Honestly, so does the tea party. But they both also have a lot of supporters who HAVEN'T done a lot of thinking about what's right and wrong and what to do with our country. My mom, for instance, is a big supporter of the Occupy movement. All she knows about them is that they don't support Republicans, and therefore, must be good. She supports them, donates money to their fund and old clothes, and all she knows is that they're not the 'bad guy'.

Occupy may have a better stance, and it may not. But to say that they've all thought about it, and the Tea Party all haven't, is a problem. It does a discredit to the whole country, because you're dismissing an entire group of people as idiots for having a different opinion.

What we need right now is politicians willing to work together. We're not getting that, and continuing to dismiss their supporters means we'll CONTINUE to not get that.

My biggest concern right now is that we're going to have a civil war. News like this [The people talking about committing fraud] are part of why I don't think its that far out.

[Rapscallion]

I understand what you're saying, I think its not phrased very well, though.

That I'll agree with. I didn't have that much time to formulate the response, but the core of it is there.

It's astounding from the perspective of this side of the pond. There are people outstandingly against the concept of 'Obamacare' when they can't afford healthcare themselves and would benefit from it, but they think because it's socialist it's bad.

Socialist? My arse. The right-wingers over here are desperately envious of the system he's been working on, which effectively forces money into the hands of medical companies. It's a right-wing wet dream over here, but they know they'd have no chance of getting it passed. Yet over there it's socialism and bad.

Same for OWS. It started because a bunch of people with lots of money and all the power trying to get more money than they can spend, and fucking over many people in the process. You know, the ones who trusted the people with the six-figure monthly incomes to look after their pensions, but ended up with bugger all. So, the ones who fouled it up got a huge bailout from the taxes of the people they screwed over, and then promptly got nifty bonuses for ... not having done their jobs.

See, the American psyche seems to worship the ideal of the self-made man or woman, and I have no problem with that. However, this particular series of events is just where the incompetent have been rewarded, and those who trusted them have been screwed. What amuses me, in a grim fashion, is that one complaint about socialism is that there's no incentive, yet if you foul up under the current warped version of capitalism in operation then ... you're rewarded anyway. Well, as long as you're one of the people with the money in the first place.

It's shit like that which has caused OWS in the first place.

The Tea Party are defending the abilities of the rich and powerful to maintain their position, even when they're on average incomes and not rich by any reasonable standard.

Truth to tell, when watching some DVDs of Spartacus the other night I was very much reminded of the classical studies lessons I took many years ago when I learned about the era. The rich would effectively pay for the votes of the plebeians (spelling? been a long time...) through what Juvenal referred to as 'pane et circenses' - bread and circuses. Keep them fed, keep them entertained, and they'll vote for you and those you deem suitable as political allies, those upon whom you bestow patronage. Back then, lives were traded in the form of games in the arenas for votes. These days, it seems lives are traded outside hospitals that people can't afford to get into for votes.

Feel free to defend the actions of the majority of the Tea Party. As far as I'm concerned, the majority haven't really thought about what they're doing. The stuff in the OP is the far end of the bell curve, but the attitude of the Tea Party in general doesn't really bear close examination.

It's economic, and in some cases personal, suicide to vote against your own interests. It really, really makes no sense.

Rapscallion

[FArchivist]

I don't know how accurate this is.

Or if people are just saying stupid things. But at the very least if anyone of these people actually attempt election fraud then they have rock solid proof.
Election tampering is bad.

So far about 6 or 7 people in Wisconsin were stupid enough to talk about doing things like this on FB. That was extremely stupid; they apparently are STILL unaware that federal election authorities are now watching them, that the posts have been archived, and that action will be taken if they try it. in fact, action has already been taken, but more on that later.

Even more stupid? Mike Huckabee endorsed them. That doesn't make the GOP look good at all.

[FArchivist]

From a friend of mine on LJ:

I posted about this, point out the fact that Will R Jenkins claimed to be "a highly trusted member of a recall group who nobody would expect would do such a thing." I asked if anyone knew what group that was and if he had been kicked out. A friend came on and wanted to know if I had a link to his page, which I did (I found it before posting). When he saw he worked for the Kenosha School District, he decided to give them a call based on what he saw on his page ("blatantly racist crap," though he also talked about wanting to see more dead hippies from Occupy Wall Street and wished that there had been video of a man jumping to his death so he could put it to music - "I Believe I Can Fly"). Not too long after:

"Just got the call back from the superintendent of Kenosha schools, Jenkins has been referred to the police for investigation and is now on leave pending dismissal, darn I love being effective."

All I've got to say about that is HA! For those interested Will Jenkins' FB is here. He went on a deleting spree. Too bad the internet never forgets.

[Panacea]

By and large I expect such efforts will be the pettiness of a handful of blowhards rather than coordinated efforts by the Tea Party.

The Tea Party are apparently a grass roots movement with what appears to be an aim of maintaining people who aren't them in positions of extreme wealth at the expense of themselves and everyone else.

Sure, I'm biased. I don't feel any shame in this.

Rapscallion

That's because the Tea Party is really an "astroturf" movement. While it started grassroots, it was quickly co-opted by the Koch brothers, and other high powered corporate individuals who wanted to control the message. Tea Party organizations like Americans for Prosperity are fronts for these people.

That's partly why I don't think the recall will see organized fraud. The corporate types running this don't want that kind of heat to come down on them, but they can't control every nutjob frothing at the mouth.

[Andara Bledin]

More details at Politiscoop

^-.-^

[Andara Bledin]

And, bumping this for new news.

Article at Daily Kos

A man walked up to a recall petition table and destroyed one of the petitions on it (and several blank pages below it) before making his way back to his car and departing. But not before another petitioner (not active at that table, but visiting those who were) got a picture of him in the car as well as the license plate information which was then turned over to police.

^-.-^