So, what's up with the Democrats?

[Andara Bledin]

I think this might be what you're referring to, HYHYBT:
Article at National Journal

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[AdminAssistant]

Yeah, the GOP isn't interested in saving money. Case in point, Kansas Gov. Brownback eliminated the state's Arts Commission to save $600,000 from the state's budget. He then replaced it with the privately-run Kansas Arts Foundation. Remember that figure, it's important later. Now, the primary job of a state's Arts Commission is to distribute funds from the National Endowment of the Arts, a federal body. So, the NEA distributes funds to the state agencies. Then organizations/individuals apply for grants from the state agencies. It's a really good system that ensures that the money goes where it is most needed. However, the NEA will only distribute those funds to a state that has a state-run Arts Commission. You see where this is going.

The state of Kansas was due to receive $1.7 million from the NEA this year, which they won't, because Gov. Brownback wanted to save $600,000.

[Rapscallion]

It interests me that in a thread devoted to the apparent flaws of the Democrats, the Republicans are coming under more fire than their opponents.

Rapscallion

[Nekojin]

There are lots of things wrong with Democratic politicians, and many of them are the same things that are wrong with Republican politicians - they're in power, they're getting wined and dined and occasionally getting a fat envelope stuffed with cash from lobbyists, and they're not going to do anything that jeopardizes that. They have too much vested interest in the status quo to actually fix things in a way that would make things a bit worse for them, but better for the country.

One of the other big problems with Democrats is that, for a long time, they've been "the other team." As a result, they have a pretty wide range of political beliefs, and getting them to band together and vote together to get something done, even when they have the majority, is difficult. Contrast that to the Republicans, who have a pretty strict credo of unity - to the point that every single Republican member of Congress has signed Grover Norquist's Pledge to not raise taxes*. Republicans get things done even when they don't have a majority. Some of it is dirty politics, granted, but nobody's interested in closing the loopholes that allow for the dirty politics (for example, the current Filibuster rules).

*And while I don't disagree with the basic sentiment, absolutist statements are usually wrong in the long run. Sometimes, taxes do need to be raised.

[Duelist925]

It interests me that in a thread devoted to the apparent flaws of the Democrats, the Republicans are coming under more fire than their opponents.

Rapscallion

I think thats mostly due to the sheer amount of ammo they've handed out over the past decade or so, and the platforms their running on now.

Its hard to find fault with one side, when the other side seems to be entirely about "We hate anything not straight, white, christian and male!"

[Hyena Dandy]

I think thats mostly due to the sheer amount of ammo they've handed out over the past decade or so, and the platforms their running on now.

It also has to do with our forum's demographics. Ask people who swing Democrat what's wrong with Democrats, you'll get weaker/fewer answers than asking people who swing Republican.

Maybe if you found a Republican forum, then you could get more straight answers.

[Nekojin]

Maybe if you found a Republican forum, then you could get more straight answers.

Nope, not really. You'd get lots of froth and emotion, not much in the way of substance. You'd hear "liberal" and "socialist" in nearly every response, despite the fact that the Democratic party, as a whole, isn't really either. You'd hear lots of fear-mongering, appeals to irrelevant authority, and ad hominems. But it would be a very rare post that gave you solid, factual grounds for opposing the Democrats.

Keep in mind that many of the people who are the staunchest supporters of the Republicans are those who would be harmed the most if the Republicans achieved all of their goals. The cognitive dissonance is painful.

[Hyena Dandy]

Well, what I mean isn't a forum dedicated to being a Republican. Rather, a Republican-leaning forum. There are smart, articulate, intelligent Republicans who avoid being frothing-at-the-mouth. They're hard to find, but that's not because voting Republican makes you stupid. That's because if you look to something specifically dedicated to something, you'll find the most passionate supporters.

[Nekojin]

Well, what I mean isn't a forum dedicated to being a Republican. Rather, a Republican-leaning forum. There are smart, articulate, intelligent Republicans who avoid being frothing-at-the-mouth. They're hard to find, but that's not because voting Republican makes you stupid. That's because if you look to something specifically dedicated to something, you'll find the most passionate supporters.

*shrug* The other site that I frequent is a tech forum. They have a political sub-forum, much like here. We have a lot of intelligent, articulate people... and despite there not being any rules that cater to one side or the other, the political section is heavily tilted toward liberals. We have only a few conservatives/Republicans who post at all in there, and even they frequently fall to one of the typical Republican fallacies, most often Appeal to Authority.

Is it possible that there's a site that is devoted to articulate, learned Republicans who argue with facts and logic? I'm willing to believe the possibility, but I'll eat your hat if you can find one.

[Andara Bledin]

Is it possible that there's a site that is devoted to articulate, learned Republicans who argue with facts and logic? I'm willing to believe the possibility, but I'll eat your hat if you can find one.

No... not the hat. It's too cool a hat to die.

Then again, I'm not sure it's actually in any danger... >_>

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[Nekojin]

Here's another hallmark (from the same forum I mentioned before): There are two threads, one labeled, "The Scary Republican Base" (which isn't intended to be a general smear-fest at all Republicans, just the scary ones), and one labeled, "Got a Beef With The Democratic Party? Post it here!"

The former thread is just shy of 700 pages (at 40 posts per page), and consists mostly of the latest outrage du jour from Republican politicians, politicos, and rabble-rousers (including those like Beck, Coulter, and Limbaugh). The latter is 129 pages, and is primarily complaints about how the current Democratic party doesn't represent the average Democratic constituent very well, being both less liberal and less progressive than they would prefer.

[Hyena Dandy]

Is it possible that there's a site that is devoted to articulate, learned Republicans who argue with facts and logic? I'm willing to believe the possibility, but I'll eat your hat if you can find one.

Well then I'll stop looking then. I love my hat.

However, the thing is it's going to be hard to find one. Partly because of the demographics of the internet in general. The people who are cool, articulate, intelligent Republicans aren't going to go to a site that's dedicated to being Republican. The people who go to a site like that are probably ones who not only ARE Republican, but don't want to talk to Non-Republicans.

Perhaps if there was a forum about something that, demographically, a lot of Republicans like, but that isn't key to their idea of Republicananity. Perhaps... I don't know, a 24 fan-forum?

My point was mostly (if it's unclear, or if we're drifting) that the reason that asking that on this forum is going to get comments about the Republicans being dicks is because, well... We tend to like the Democrats. We're a liberal-leaning forum.

If we had a few more Conservatives in here, we might find a few more Conservative points.

I think, though, from my perspective, there are a lot of people who are former-Republicans who rather like the Democrats these days. I think the Republican party has gone REALLY far right in the last few years. It frustrates me that, well, Mitt Romney at the moment is considered Moderate. He was Moderate when he ran Massachusetts, but he's not now...

The Democrats I certainly feel are a better option. They tend to be moderate at the moment (I think Obama's more conservative than Stephen Harper.) At any rate, my comment was mostly that the reason that all the people on here tend to be in favor of Democratic candidates, which is why there are a lot of criticisms of Republicans and few of Democrats.

Edit: In short, my point was not "There are good reasons to prefer the Republicans" but rather that the fact you don't find many on this forum is only a statement about this forum.

[Nekojin]

The Democrats I certainly feel are a better option. They tend to be moderate at the moment (I think Obama's more conservative than Stephen Harper.) At any rate, my comment was mostly that the reason that all the people on here tend to be in favor of Democratic candidates, which is why there are a lot of criticisms of Republicans and few of Democrats.

Obama is right of center, as judged by several neutral sites. Not far right of center, but definitely not "liberal" by any stretch of the imagination*. The rest of the Democratic party is also fairly Moderate. There isn't a functional Liberal party in the US any more, and hasn't been for a good 20 years, at least.

The problem is that the more moderate Conservatives - those who judge each situation on its own merits - are more likely to be in the Democratic camp these days, simply because the Democratic platform does encompass some Conservative ideals. And in some cases, when they refuse to abandon their Republican identity while abhorring everything the Republican party has come to represent, they'll either hold their noses and vote, or just simply abstain.

And, honestly, I think that Libertarian/Authoritarian is just as important of an axis as Conservative/Liberal, and while both the Republicans and the Tea Partiers swing heavily Authoritarian, the Democrats are, again, somewhere in the middle - not really supporting the personal freedoms that a Libertarian perspective would champion, but not aggressively opposing them, either.

* Which is particularly amusing when raving Republican pundits call him the "most Liberal President ever!" - some of the Presidents from around the turn of the century would take exception to that...

[Hyena Dandy]

[/quote]Obama is right of center, as judged by several neutral sites. Not far right of center, but definitely not "liberal" by any stretch of the imagination*. [/quote]

Hence my comparing him to the Canadian Prime Minister, member of a party called the "Conservative" party.

[HYHYBT]

I think this might be what you're referring to, HYHYBT:
Article at National Journal

^-.-^

That's it. Not the same article, but it's on the same subject.

It interests me that in a thread devoted to the apparent flaws of the Democrats, the Republicans are coming under more fire than their opponents.

Sorry.

I *know* there are Republicans on Fratching; strange they don't seem to be adding much to this thread.