crippling our military

[PepperElf]

Andara said it before, but it bears repeating: Comments like this come off as extremely arrogant and closed-minded. Not to mention ignorant. You literally have no idea what level of military strategy I'm familiar with (or anyone else on these forums, either, unless they expressly say).

You chose to decide it applies to you. I bear no fault for you choosing to be offended. Even if you want to try to paint me with the guilty brush. and for others who want to do the same.


I see it as a hole. why? o yes some systems may be moved to other ships. i don't think it will be though. i can't vouch for all the ships no. and i never said all of them should be kept. my main gripe is that some rather young ones are on the kill list.


sure they "might" move linebacker to another cg. will they? probably not. it wasn't cheap to install in the first place and all the other cgs are older, meaning they'll be headed for the chopping block soon too. 73 is the youngest - a 2 ton diamond as one of my COs use to call her. took them a long time to install it too. it's not something you can slip in overnight. can't remember how long they took... at least 6 months iirc. so that in itself is going to drive the price tag up.

[PepperElf]

Well, the final disposition on the Enterprise hasn't been decided yet. It's been ordered to port. It's going to get a microscope-and-toothbrush close inspection, at which point they'll decide what, exactly, they want to do with it.

ya. they have to be that thorough cos it's and old girl. if we were in normal times she'd be wearing the "don't tread on me" at all times. (oldest ship gets to fly it - excluding old ironsides). and of course you can't be too careful when you're overhauling a nuclear carrier. iirc the normal ones take at least 3 years for serious work, and those don't have 8 reactors to work on

[Hyena Dandy]

(oldest ship gets to fly it - excluding old ironsides)

Yeah, I was about to say "Damn, I lived next to the Constitution for ten years and never noticed that. How dull am I?"

[Anthony K. S.]

PepperElf, when you make statements like these ...

I don't expect everyone to see it this way. Not because of politics but simply because many people aren't use to combining little bits of intel into bigger pictures like this.

i understand some of you won't see it that way. you may not have ever had to think of military strategy. so it's not how some are use to looking at things.

Whether or not it was your intent, you are basically saying that the ONLY reason why people would disagree with you is because they simply lack knowledge or understanding of the situation.

This is why some folks have called your statements "arrogant."

You're coming off as saying something like, "I am right, and if you don't think so, it's only because you don't understand what is going on."

[Daskinor]

Meh, as much stuff that is coming off the pipe in the next 10 years I am calling shenanigans. The Enterprise most likely will be dry docked for parts or become museum. Either way a new aircraft carrier will be cheaper in the log term over making new parts for a 50 year old aircraft carrier.

And an old missile defense system, is going to be a huge loss compared to the ships we still have in that area that have state of the art 100% classified kind.

[PepperElf]

it wasn't my intent to insult you.

However at the same time... what do you want me to do? Pretend I don't see things differently than others? Pretend that I don't look at say, a homeless guy standing outside a base gate and think "that could be exploited for security". How many others do you know of would think that who haven't had training in security matters?

[Duelist925]

it wasn't my intent to insult you.

However at the same time... what do you want me to do? Pretend I don't see things differently than others? Pretend that I don't look at say, a homeless guy standing outside a base gate and think "that could be exploited for security". How many others do you know of would think that who haven't had training in security matters?

...Anyone?

Hell, I've had little to nil training in security, and that would have twigged for me.

How about anyone who'se ever designed a fortress for a D&d game? Or a city? That makes you think paranoid. Very paranoid.

Or even just played D&d. How may rogue players have gone home after a game, see that, and think "YEah, he's trying to scam in to assassinate the princess" or some such.

Not to mention, I have no doubt that there are others on this forum with secuirty training.


Also, you fairly badly invalidated your claim since, as other have pointed out, losing eleven ships is hardly cripling, especially considering there more stuff coming off the line to replace it. Also factoring in that our navy is several orders of magnitude larger than any other in the world.

Oh, and a hole in out defense that China could exploit? First...you think they wont be replacing those ships?

Secondly...why the hell would China ever exploit it? They need us. Badly. It'd like a hotdog vendor attacking the guy who sells him more hotdogs.

[PepperElf]

no i didn't.
again i never said ALL the ships would cripple. if you reread my post i even said that some of them were crap - crumbling crommelin comments.

why did i post the link to all 11 then?

um. cos that's the official decom list. they did link to individual ships on the list but i chose to post the original list of decoms.



and why? Um...
they don't love us as much as you seem to think.*

if they did then why would they spend so much time hacking us?
or ban usn ships from entering port? (i was on board the ship that got denied entry too)
or suggest that we stay east of hawaii and let them handle the area west. actually i was surprised to find link to that one too. i originally read about it in the stars & stripes asia edition.

and to be honest i'm starting to think we're more dependent on them than they are on us. hell we're in debt to them already.


but as others mentioned iirc it's also north korea. i tend to forget about them i admit cos they started acting up after i left the theatre there.

which reminds me i do kinda mourn the loss of the cowpens too. but it's a bit older than the port royal. still she did a good job (well save for that psycho CO graff).

[Andara Bledin]

First, without knowing what other capabilities are currently in operation, the fact that they're taking out 1 ship with a "theatre ballistic" system (whatever that is) is pretty meaningless.

Second, without knowing the current deployment near and west of Hawaii, that 3 are being removed is also meaningless.

A little context would do a lot to give the OP some framework and meaning.

Finally, the fact that you have a "unique background" and don't think other people are "use [sic] to combining little bits of intel" is completely meaningless and does nothing to support your position. It's an appeal to self-authority and worth even less than a regular appeal to authority.

Finally, considering that NavSea states that part of their mission is to keep a minimum of 313 ships active, globally, I think our 400+ fleet is more than adequate to meet the needs as determined by people whose job it is to know these things.

^-.-^

[bara]

I would like to think the Admirals know a bit more about strategic planning and deployments than I do. Although I did once helm the Austin, the ship my bro served on (it was a family cruise thing and it totally rocked), I hardly think they need my advice since the most I can offer are random guesses like I-4.

The Enterprise, bless her rusty old soul, is being held together with paint and bubble gum. She needs a break. Shes 51 years old and the sailors have to make spare parts themselves, they cant just order new ones. Shes so old they just dont come in her size anymore. What happens when something breaks that cant be made anymore at all? Not good to have her out at sea then since I dont think AAA has an aquatic division.

[Gravekeeper]

China hacks you for the same reason they hack everyone else: Industrial and economic advantages. China needs your money, nothing else. They prop their GDP up with a constant, pointless construction industry that constructs entire cities that no one lives in just to keep the GDP up. WIthout sweet sweet western money flowing in through trade and manufacturing, the entire country would collapse like a deck of cards. They're desperate for cash and technology.

Attacking the US would be economic suicide for China. Nevermind how difficult waging any sort of ground war on US soil would be with an ocean inbetween against the country with the largest navy and air force in the world standing inbetween. Nevermind all of the US's allies coming down on them as well both strategically and economically.

As for the Enterprise, she's big, old and takes too many people to operate. Capital ship warfare isn't a advantage in modern naval combat. Carriers only retain use because of the strategic advantage of aircraft and the perference there is for smaller, more maneuverable ones if at all possible. Other capital ships have long since been retired as they're too big and too vunerable.

The future of naval combat is on small, maneuverable vessals with long range strike capabilities, low radar profiles and smaller crews. Hence the Zumwalt class destroyer and the new Ford class carrier that's replacing oldies like the Enterprise.

[Hyena Dandy]

I'm pretty sure that the government already thought of this. I wouldn't be worried, because this is something that someone would really point out. Since we are, naturally, worried about an attack from China. It's the DoD's job to plan for any attack that has the slightest POSSIBILITY of happening.

I highly doubt that they'd have decommissioned some ships like this unless they had something just as good, if not better, waiting.

[Gravekeeper]

I highly doubt that they'd have decommissioned some ships like this unless they had something just as good, if not better, waiting.

Ford class aircraft carriers. The first of which will be finished by 2015. The year the Enterprise was originally going to be decommissioned. Ford was intended to be her direct replacement. Every Nimitz carrier will be replaced by a Ford carrier every 5 years from here on out.

Ford is harder to detect, has more combat capability, is safer for pilots and crew alike, more effecient, requires over 1000 less crew to operate and can field a wider variety of combat aircraft. So, yeah, Enterprise is getting decomissioned to make way for Ford and will only increase the US's military power. Not cripple it in any way shape or form.

[Hyena Dandy]

Yeah, that seems reasonable.

I think, PE, you're being a bit of an armchair general. You may know more about our military and naval defenses at this moment than anyone else in this forum. But probably not more than the people who decided on the decommissions. I don't think that our defenses are being 'crippled' in any sense of the word. I personally have enough faith in the people in the DoD that they're not going to leave a big gaping hole in our defenses.

Edit: Especially as all the things you've mentioned have seemed, even to me, to be pretty obvious. Including the homeless guy thing.

[Gravekeeper]

Well, as previously stated, these 11 ships mean practically nothing to the US's overall military strength. Every ship on the list here is at least 25-30+ years old. The frigates are so old the US has literally been giving them away to Poland and Turkey. >.>

The Cowpens was also involved in a big scandal a while back too over the CO being physically and verbally abusive to the crew.