Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) ruled constitutional - strong reactions abound

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

The response has ranged from celebration and happiness from those who supported the healthcare law to cries of "America is dead!" and threats of armed rebellion from those who opposed it.

It's still unclear if the law will actually stand for good. Mitt Romney has promised to repeal it if elected President and it's also possible that even if Obama wins but the GOP gets control of the senate (and keeps control of the house) that they'll try and sabotage it there as well.

Personally, I support affordable health care for everyone...BUT I'm not sure that forcing everyone to buy insurance is the right way to do it. I'm not too thrilled with the idea that politicians can now force me to buy a product.

Having said, I think some of the negative reaction to the ruling is a bit over the top.

[Greenday]

I believe in affordable healthcare. I don't believe in this "fine the shit out of everyone" attitude of it though. Why should I be fined a few thousand dollars a year for not having health insurance despite the fact that I have no need of it? Maybe if I ever get to the point where the most sick I get is a cold once a year I'll get insurance again. But I have no need for it presently so there's no reason the government should try to steal money from me.

[Rageaholic]

I'm pretty much the same. Health care for everyone is good, but forcing everyone to buy insurance is not. Taxing someone who can't afford it is only going to make it worse on them.

With that said, some of the negative reactions are hillarious.

[Panacea]

Putting everyone into the insurance pools is key making health care affordable.

You guys say you want healthcare to be affordable; well, this is the only way it can happen.

The larger the pool of the insured, the cheaper premiums will be.

Everyone gets sick sooner or later. Waiting until one is sick to get insurance, or hoping one never gets sick is part of what drives health care inflation.

We are "forced" to buy food, shelter, and clothing. These things are necessities of life.

Well, so is health care, really. The costs of caring for illnesses, many of which are preventable, is bankrupting us.

I can understand the point of view expressed by those who don't want to buy insurance. But the complexities of the modern world make it as essentially as any other necessity.

[powerboy]

We are "forced" to buy food, shelter, and clothing. These things are necessities of life.

We are not exactly forced to buy those things. Someone can give you seeds and you grow the food yourself. With shelter, you can most likely live with a family member for free, or stay at a shelter, if need be. And well clothes, you can get free ones from family and/or friends. Or even at the community center.

Just saying .

[fireheart17]

Four words:

Universal. Health. Care. System.



(and yes, there are flaws with this system, but people at least receive basic healthcare, which includes being seen by a doctor and being seen at a hospital among other things. Private health insurance on top of THAT is NOT tied to a job and the only REAL benefits of private health insurance are that you can jump the waiting list in some cases for surgeries, you can choose your own doctor and sometimes, but not always, you can have surgeries and whatnot in a private hospital. Private health insurance =/= private room.)

[Greenday]

We are not exactly forced to buy those things. Someone can give you seeds and you grow the food yourself. With shelter, you can most likely live with a family member for free, or stay at a shelter, if need be. And well clothes, you can get free ones from family and/or friends. Or even at the community center.

Just saying .

Well, also, I have lived the past four months without health insurance. If I tried to live that long without food, shelter, and clothing, I'd be dead. So I guess health insurance isn't really a necessity. Even when I just graduated college and was poor as hell, I had no health insurance, nor would I have been able to afford it. But had this act been active at the time, I'd be fined a few thousand dollars that I didn't have all because my family wasn't completely poor as shit too. My family was making just enough money to pay the mortgage, food, gas to get to work. There wasn't room for my family to afford to buy me health insurance.

[the_std]

But, Greenday, the point of this system is that, with everyone participating, health insurance won't be NEARLY as expensive as it is right now, and it won't be the sacrifice it currently is to get it. So if this system had been in place when you graduated college, you would have had a much higher likelihood of being able to afford it, as would your family. That is the point.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Putting everyone into the insurance pools is key making health care affordable.

You guys say you want healthcare to be affordable; well, this is the only way it can happen.

The larger the pool of the insured, the cheaper premiums will be.

Everyone gets sick sooner or later. Waiting until one is sick to get insurance, or hoping one never gets sick is part of what drives health care inflation.

We are "forced" to buy food, shelter, and clothing. These things are necessities of life.

Well, so is health care, really. The costs of caring for illnesses, many of which are preventable, is bankrupting us.

I can understand the point of view expressed by those who don't want to buy insurance. But the complexities of the modern world make it as essentially as any other necessity.

As someone who spent the first 25 years of his life in a country that had universal healthcare, I respectfully disagree with that statement.

[HYHYBT]

Countries that have universal health care pay for it in some way, and taxes aren't optional either.

Our current climate won't support a single payer system... but this whatever it's called seems like a pretty good way to do things. Biggest problems with the old way are that insurance companies keep too much of what they take in, essentially overcharging for what you get, and that they don't cover preexisting conditions (so if you're *ever* without insurance for a bit, anything you already have is never covered again so long as you live.) This new thing fixes both of those problems... but nobody would buy insurance when they were healthy if they could wait until they need to use it.

As I understand it, this also fixes another serious problem most people just don't care about: that for many years the government has required that emergencies be treated whether the patient can pay or not, yet it hasn't provided any money to cover the expense of doing so, leaving doctors and hospitals on the hook for that rather substantial cost. For some hospitals, it's been the difference between keeping the doors open and going out of business...

[AdminAssistant]

Greenday, if something had happened that forced you to go to the hospital (let's say appendicitis), then you would end up with a $30,000 hospital bill that you wouldn't be able to pay, so the hospital would end up either eating most of the expenses or using charity care for it. Either way, someone is going to pay.

Look, before you tell me this is nonsense, I want you to come sit with me during my next period, because I have to go through one more before my insurance will cover pre-existing conditions. I will experience ~36 hours of pain so bad that I won't be able to stand up straight, walk, sit, or do anything but lay perfectly still. Either my IUD is in a bad place and needs to be removed or I have a cyst, but I can't find out because I can't go to the frakkin' doctor. This is BULLSHIT. This is STUPID. It has to change. Short of a single payer system (which we can't have, because socialism ) this is the best solution. Or at least a step in the right direction.

[Andara Bledin]

As I understand it, this also fixes another serious problem most people just don't care about: that for many years the government has required that emergencies be treated whether the patient can pay or not, yet it hasn't provided any money to cover the expense of doing sos...

Basically, we've already got socialized medicine; you just have to let it go to the point where it'll be really expensive before it kicks in. >_<

What we've got is broken beyond belief. What we're getting is actually going to address some of the fundamental flaws.

Plus, if everybody pays in, everybody will end up paying less (in many cases individually as well) and everything will cost less, too, because nobody is left holding the bag, and the problems will be caught in the early stages, before they become exponentially more costly in every possible way.

^-.-^

[PepperElf]

We are "forced" to buy food, shelter, and clothing. These things are necessities of life.

And now that this is getting through as a "tax"... It really makes me wonder just how much control they can exert over the population.

Sure I know the "government mandated broccoli" comment over on fox may sound a bit farfetched but... I dunno. If they claim it's to lower healthcare costs, what new taxes, or "tax discounts" will they create in order to force the populace to live and eat the way certain individuals feel they should?


And if this is a tax now... they may need to explain why so many groups (aside from non-profit groups etc) have gotten themselves exempt from this tax.


although... now that they've declared it a tax, they may have shot themselves in the foot with trying to order religious groups around on healthcare. cos, if it's a tax then... isn't it violating federal law to impose such tax laws on non-profit groups?

[Hyena Dandy]

Did you read the decision? Or, actually, did you know what the challenge WAS?

The challenge was on the grounds that Congress could not use its powers to regulate interstate commerce to create commerce by mandating the purchase of healthcare.

The decision was that that clause can be declared a tax.

The health care law is not suddenly a tax bill. The provisions and rules involved are exactly the same. The mandate that you must purchase health care is allowable as a tax. Health care is not suddenly taxes.

[Greenday]

Health care is not suddenly taxes.

Nope but this bill is.