Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) ruled constitutional - strong reactions abound

[Zod]

Socialised Army, Socialised roads, Socialised police, Socialised schools. But Socialised health care is one step too far?

It does seem like a needlessly complicated system though : why not just add a couple of points to Social Security and expand Medicare to everyone?

Many unhealthy foods are as cheap as they are because of corporate welfare; subsidies for things like sugar and corn.

Here's a thought : stop using tax money to subsidise unhealthy foods : let the free market control US food production, and invest the monry saved in public healthcare?

[Rapscallion]

It does seem like a needlessly complicated system though : why not just add a couple of points to Social Security and expand Medicare to everyone?

I think Obama tried to get as many people on board as possible by making it a bit free market. If he had his time over again, I think he'd be 'screw you' instead as there's been no attempt to meet on a middle ground to benefit the American people.

Here's a thought : stop using tax money to subsidise unhealthy foods : let the free market control US food production, and invest the monry saved in public healthcare?

Well, the free market we have now (and I include the UK in that) isn't truly free, and that's a good thing because corporations are people, y'know? More seriously, if a business makes its profits from subsidies, it should be ashamed that it cannot manage in the real world.

Rapscallion

[crashhelmet]

I think Obama tried to get as many people on board as possible by making it a bit free market. If he had his time over again, I think he'd be 'screw you' instead as there's been no attempt to meet on a middle ground to benefit the American people.


Well, the free market we have now (and I include the UK in that) isn't truly free, and that's a good thing because corporations are people, y'know? More seriously, if a business makes its profits from subsidies, it should be ashamed that it cannot manage in the real world.

Rapscallion

That's a major thing that irks me about all of this. A lot of the ignorant are whining and complaining that this means they have to buy the Government Healthcare plan, whatever it may be. They completely ignore the fact that they can still buy Aetna, Blue Cross, MetLife, or whatever insurance they want to have. So not only will the cost of premiums go down because more people will be paying in, the costs of premiums will go down for the sole purpose of competition within the Free Market.

[wolfie]

Considering "Obamacare" is based on Romney's work from when he was governor of Massachussets, I wonder what sort of spin the Republicans will be putting on this:

"Vote for us, because the other guys want to do for the whole country what our leader did for his state".

[Nekojin]

Considering "Obamacare" is based on Romney's work from when he was governor of Massachussets, I wonder what sort of spin the Republicans will be putting on this:

"Vote for us, because the other guys want to do for the whole country what our leader did for his state".

That's already been addressed at least once. Romney himself has said, pretty bluntly, that it's, "good at the state level, bad at the federal level." Which, to my ears, translates as, "good when I propose it, bad when the other guy does."

[Mytical]

I can only be happy about this, and let me explain why. Chances are, it will mean I will finally (one way or another) get covered for all my medical problems. The system before really did a number on me. Despite the fact that I went into the ICU, and nearly died, I was not sick enough to receive 'aid'. How messed up is that? All my medical bills, all my medicines..the medical fairy doesn't just visit me and pay all of that. Heck I've never qualified for medical insurance because of a pre-existing medical condition. So most of my life I've never been able to afford being sick. Yay.

It might not be the best solution to the issue, but I'll be honest. I can not afford my medical bills..so they go unpaid. Because of how sick I am I am racking up thousands of dollars a month in bills (8k in one day once). I'd have to be heir to multimillions, win the lottery, or have one heck of a job to be able to afford that. Which drives up costs for everybody, and if I was covered..at least the bills would be paid. Not something I am proud of, not being able to pay..but it is what it is.

[Dreamstalker]

That's already been addressed at least once. Romney himself has said, pretty bluntly, that it's, "good at the state level, bad at the federal level." Which, to my ears, translates as, "good when I propose it, bad when the other guy does."

Yup. IIRC, premiums here didn't go down (when it was enacted, mom actually had to drop her insurance because the CEO decided to jack rates UP).

[lordlundar]

Well, we aren't getting universal health care. We are getting "Some people get health care without paying for it, some get health care and pay for it, and some pay for it but don't get it." That doesn't fly with me. Nor is that really "universal" health care.

So you're blaming Obama for the Republican's screwup, Gotcha.

[Greenday]

So you're blaming Obama for the Republican's screwup, Gotcha.

Didn't mention Obama once.

I just don't like either system. The system of everyone has to buy their own but the most poor is crap. The ACA is closer in the direction of getting it right. I don't believe health care companies should be able to discriminate against people for prior conditions. But I don't think the government should give the middle finger to everyone who isn't poor but doesn't have insurance by fining them and not giving them anything in return. It's a dick move. If anything, it encourages insurance companies to jack up prices because you'll be fined a ton if you don't get insurance.

Honestly, I feel like not much is changing with the ACA except for some anti-discrimination stuff, some more people get aid, but that's it as far as positives go. I'm going to get fined if I don't get a job with benefits by then and that's not right.

[Andara Bledin]

So, you don't want to be forced to get it, but if you're not forced to get it, it's not universal?

Also, I do have to wonder what part of "you cannot be refused emergency care" is nothing. You get something, and you have gotten that for some time. Just because you haven't needed it, doesn't mean it isn't there. It's just that now you have to pay for it, somehow.

Plus, if you don't have a job, I sincerely doubt you'll be anywhere near the 400% of the poverty level that doesn't get any help paying for insurance. I'm not even over that level, and I've got a full-time job, a new-ish car, and a house. Somehow, I think you're woefully misinformed, or you're purposefully taking things the wrong way.

^-.-^

[Greenday]

So, you don't want to be forced to get it, but if you're not forced to get it, it's not universal?

Nope, because it's not equal.

Plus, if you don't have a job, I sincerely doubt you'll be anywhere near the 400% of the poverty level that doesn't get any help paying for insurance. I'm not even over that level, and I've got a full-time job, a new-ish car, and a house. Somehow, I think you're woefully misinformed, or you're purposefully taking things the wrong way.

It's based on household income and currently my house has three incomes that put us high enough that I'll probably get screwed over.

[Andara Bledin]

It's based on household income and currently my house has three incomes that put us high enough that I'll probably get screwed over.

Is this physical household or legal household? They're not the same things, after all.

Generally, the only time that people living in the same place are automatically considered the same household is when they are married to each other or they are parent and child with the child under a certain age (22 in one example I found). If the child is past that cut-off, then there are ways to establish him and his parents as separate households for the purposes of things such as financial assistance.

Been there, done that, it's trivially easy to do.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

The penalty/tax/fine/whatever you want to call it is assessed annually, so I'm guessing it's a legal household. His parents would have to claim him on their federal tax return for him to be included.

[Andara Bledin]

The penalty/tax/fine/whatever you want to call it is assessed annually, so I'm guessing it's a legal household. His parents would have to claim him on their federal tax return for him to be included.

From what I've been able to gather, the way it works for things like subsidies and assistance programs isn't quite the same as how it works for tax purposes, however it's a great starting point and more often than not breaks out the same.

Basically, if a person's parents are claiming them as an adult dependent, the difference in the money they get back should be weighed against any assistance that is denied because of it; funds are being awarded based on the lack of income, it's just a matter of which method is being taken advantage of by the persons involved.

If a person is getting "screwed over" because they're on another person's tax return as a dependent, it's not the government that's responsible but the people whose tax returns are involved - aka the claimant and the dependent. Do the math, figure which is the better result, then go with that. Don't just latch onto one option then whine about another option being closed off as a result.

^-.-^

[lordlundar]

Didn't mention Obama once.

You going to stick with that story, or work on a better one?

And for the track record, the very party you support, the Republican party, is soley responsible for this mess. The original bill was much closer to what you like as a universal health care system but Obama actually wanted to work with the other side in getting it out. The Republicans hacked away at it piece by piece until it became this crap saying that if Obama did it they would agree to it and STILL decided to try to kill it.