Apologizing

[daleduke17]

For the last few months the Springfield paper has been running stories about th 1908 Springfield Race Riots (the event that helped spark the NAACP forming - some trivia there as well). A couple of the stories have been run about the current city administration apologizing for acts that have happened in the past.

My question: WHY? Why should people in the current time apologize for what happened ~100 years ago? "I'm sorry our great grandfathers did this". Yep...what a great feel good statement. Why don't they worry about nipping the growing crime problem east of 9th street between Stevenson and Sangamon? Or the school problems going on in the city district?

Also the Springfield medical association is apologizing for not admitting a black doctor back then as well. Um, he ended up doing pretty good for himself. He moved to Chicago and became a very good doctor.

Honestly, none of the current administrations did anything wrong. Why the hell apologize? Making sure similar scenarios don't happen again would be good enough, wouldn't it?

I find this whole deal ridiculous and nothing more than a way to look good in the newspaper for a couple days. Something for people to be distracted by so they forget what really is going on otherwise.

[the_std]

I agree. It's great to acknowledge that the way things used to be is not the way things are now, but most people would kind of take that as a given. It's fine to say, "Since 1908, we've admitted <insert figure here> of black doctors" or "Since the founding of the NAACP, the organization has helped accomplish <list tasks here>" because that is admitting the past while still moving on. But saying "We're sorry that we didn't know 100 years ago what we know now" is just... Pointless.

This kind of apologizing is excessive and, quite frankly, a waste of time.

[Boozy]

I'd like to know how the black community feels about it. If a large portion really feels that it would be helpful, then what's the harm?

I don't see what's wrong with admitting to mistakes of the past. Society today has been built on the society of yesterday. The citizens of that time may be long dead, but to say that nothing they did has any affect on the world today is short-sighted.

I know that many whites may see this as a way to place guilt on the blameless whites of today, but I choose to see it another way. It's more a matter of saying, "Our ancestors screwed up. For what it's worth, we acknowledge that, and in acknowledging that, we can prevent history from repeating itself. We are sorry that your ancestors suffered at the hands of ours." I see it as a different sort of apology.

This should be a statement of goodwill and kindness. It only becomes something contentious if you make it.

[ebonyknight]

Well, I would chime in but "it seems like every thread has to be about race".

And lord knows there is too much of that going around, so I will apologize for blacks allowing themselves to be chained and walking into slavery!

Now we've both apologized and were even!

[Sylvia727]

It's more a matter of saying, "Our ancestors screwed up. For what it's worth, we acknowledge that, and in acknowledging that, we can prevent history from repeating itself. We are sorry that your ancestors suffered at the hands of ours." I see it as a different sort of apology.

My ancestors were immigrants, so I can be pretty sure that they weren't slave owners. Actually, I know they weren't, since we have a genealogist in my family, and the worst up my family tree since immigration is a few alcoholics and a woman who got pregnant out of wedlock. Should I still apologize for something other people's ancestors did? Heck, at the time of immigration, the Irish were still considered second-class citizens. If I apologized for my ancestors, it would be a lie, and if I apologized for white people in general, it would be a mockery. I don't have any investment in the subject of slavery beyond that of "US citizen."

I had the privilege of hearing Dr. Beverly Tatum speak once, and she pointed out that the subject of slavery makes both white and black students uncomfortable in the classroom. The reason being that many modern textbooks are written so as to encourage black students to identify with the victims, and the white students to identify with the aggressors. She said that she would like to see the subject of slavery taught with a look at the white and black abolitionists, so that students of both races would have positive role models instead of negative.

This should be a statement of goodwill and kindness. It only becomes something contentious if you make it.

Now that's a statement I can get behind. "I'm sorry your ancestors suffered. I'd like to help make today's society a better place than that." But I don't think that this is what's being said or being heard.

[anriana]

I had the privilege of hearing Dr. Beverly Tatum speak once, and she pointed out that the subject of slavery makes both white and black students uncomfortable in the classroom. The reason being that many modern textbooks are written so as to encourage black students to identify with the victims, and the white students to identify with the aggressors. She said that she would like to see the subject of slavery taught with a look at the white and black abolitionists, so that students of both races would have positive role models instead of negative.

Did she have actual proof of those reasons or was she just assuming that is why they were uncomfortable? How do Asian or Latino students feel about it? And how should slavery make people feel? Hearing about the Holocaust makes me very uncomfortable even though I have no personal or genealogical ties to it ; so do many other sanctioned evils including slavery. I don't have to identify with one of the parties involved to be made uncomfortable by it - do most people?

[Sylvia727]

Dr. Tatum is a clinical psychologist who has studied race relations in depth, particularly relations between whites and blacks, race relations in the classroom and racial identity in teens. I'm citing her as an expert in her field; if you'd like to know more about her studies, I'd recommend you pick up one of her books from your library, as there's much more in them than fits the scope of this topic.

And yes, in her speech, she did specifically say that her studies found that white and black students were uncomfortable with the race roles taught to them by their textbooks. She argued that race positive thinking instead of race negative thinking was essential to healthy race identity in teens, and that urging white students to feel shame, guilt, or responsibility for slavery only added to racial tensions.

I know from my own experience that it can be difficult for white and black students to discuss slavery objectively. Even if both parties say nothing to offend, our society has become so sensitive to the topic that the other party can easily read offense into an innocent statement. The first person, also oversensitive, can then hear the offense-taking as an insult in its own right.

I think honest, open discussion of history can often help, but when both parties are taught from the cradle to feel shame and guilt or anger and helplessness about the topic, then honest and open discussion is no longer possible. In my circle of high school friends, slavery was one of the very few taboo topics. We discussed religion, politics, sex, drugs, and racial relations, but when slavery was touched upon the conversation veered away. This taboo was necessary to keep the peace, and helped protect each other's feelings.

[Boozy]

...when both parties are taught from the cradle to feel shame and guilt or anger and helplessness about the topic, then honest and open discussion is no longer possible.

Quoted for truth.

This applies to a lot more than just race relations, too.

[Lace Neil Singer]

There were black slave owners centuries before "evil whitey" ever muscled in on the act. Whites didn't invent slavery.

My family, on my father's side, originates from Polish Jews. Does that mean that I should demand apologies from Germans and Christians for wronging my ancestors? Give me a break. -.-

[daleduke17]

My family, on my father's side, originates from Polish Jews. Does that mean that I should demand apologies from Germans and Christians for wronging my ancestors? Give me a break. -.-

And money. Don't forget that.

[blas87]

I demand the white man apologize for taking over the Natives' land several hundred years ago.

Oh wait...I'm white too.

Self dual time.

[CancelMyService]

I think a lot of it is more of an acknowledgement of past misdeeds rather than (continuing) to pretend they never happened. I know that apologies to native peoples in places like Canada and Australia were intended in those ways. It's just a governmental way of saying "yeah, our bad for that" when the prior policy was to act like those folks are mad over nothing.

I don't think too many people here are in the position to fully comprehend what it is like to have your government's laws and policies written specifically to exclude you or deny you rights. Just an acknowledgement of being wrong would probably be a boost.

[Flyndaran]

I'm descended from German Jews, Mexicans, Native Americans, subcontinental Indians, and most visibly mixed whitey.

How many times should I appologise to myself?

[CancelMyService]

It would appear that your ancestors did plenty of "apologizing" already, *wink wink* *nudge nudge* saynomore.

[powerboy]

I am part German, part Jew, part Black German, part Cherokee and a couple of others, that i cannot think of. So I will say I am SORRY & I accept your apologies I know there are more of what I am, but I will have to ask my family about that.