Two more Repub's do a disservice to.....

[Duelist925]

Before casting any more stones, perhaps the Democratic party needs to tend to their own...

A: Left leanng independent, not a Dem.

B: Are you seriously trying to suggest that the Dems have done anything on par with:

-Todd Akins "Legitimate rape" comments

-"Slavery was a blessing in disguise!"

-Trying to stir up a shit storm over the fact that an opponent is a gamer

-Suggesting disabled children are gods punishment for abortions

-And I could go on, since this is just the stuff seen on fratching.

[Tanasi]

I'm saying there's all kinds of nuts out there and NOT just in the republican party.
Slavery was and still is a terrible thing, American's didn't invent it but did unfortunately use it. Please remember not all slaves were harshly treated some in fact were treated very good but that still doesn't makeup for being property.
The evolution thing, that's his opinion and like everyone he's entitled to it. Personally I think it's wrong but.... I wouldn't vote for the guy. Can anyone here prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that mankind did evolve from lessor primates???
I'll admit that I've avoided the Todd Akins thing simply because of the stupidity attached to it so I can't say what he or didn't intend to say. If abortion becomes illegal except for the life of the mother, incest and/or rape then wouldn't it be fair to say that some women would cry rape in order to get the abortion, when in fact they hadn't been raped???
I think the gamer thing was grasping a straws. I think they're trying to appeal to older voters who see gaming as a waste of time.
The views on disabled children are many and varied, I don't see them as punishment but others do and that is their belief, they are entitled to their beliefs just as you are. Now personally I don't think they nor you should be ridiculed for those beliefs. I think the polite thing to say is I disagree. Calling someone stupid or dumbass for having different beliefs just sets yourself up for the same treatment.
There's more folks than not that have some sort of outrageous opinion about something that's not known to their friends and family. The rise of the internet and 24/7 news brings this out and the fact that lots and I mean lots of folks look for any reason to cast or not cast their vote for someone and then crow about their "superior" intellect. Maybe it's because I'm getting older and I'm starting into the latter years of my life that I see the need to be polite to one another is great, then again maybe I'm just becoming an old-fart and don't know shit.

[Andara Bledin]

Nobody is saying that batshit insane is only found within the ranks of the Republican Party; that's an argument missing an opponent. If you want to see debate about non-RP whackaloons, feel free to start your own threads about it.

Hell, there was a thread devoted to "what's wrong with the Democrats" and it died from lack of either interest or content.

As for the 24/7 news thing: These are specifically public statements being made by these people; nobody is checking their closets for this shit - they're sharing it willingly and without much in the way of provocation.

^-.-^

[Jaden]

Slavery was and still is a terrible thing, American's didn't invent it but did unfortunately use it. Please remember not all slaves were harshly treated some in fact were treated very good but that still doesn't makeup for being property.

[...]

The views on disabled children are many and varied, I don't see them as punishment but others do and that is their belief, they are entitled to their beliefs just as you are. Now personally I don't think they nor you should be ridiculed for those beliefs.

On the first comment, I'd just like to point out that many of the "Best" slave owners were still terrible. I remember reading about a slave owner who was a minister, and was considered a slave owner who treated his slaves better than almost all others, and he still did things like sell off their children. I realize you weren't even remotely trying to defend slavery, but I think this popular fiction that there were "good slave owners" needs to die out.

As to your second statement that I've quoted, beliefs are beliefs, but when people start acting on them and legislating them, it is completely within the rights of all others to do their best to stop them from doing so. As soon as money changes hands or a law is passed, it changes from a belief to an attack. These are lawmakers. These are people who give large amounts of money to organizations, or receive large amounts of money from organizations, dedicated to whatever things they're espousing. It's completely reasonable at that point to call them out on their shit.

Now, as for the notion that only Democrats are finding problems with the Republican party, I'd like to point out that I am a Republican, and have been ever since I could register to vote. However, I will almost certainly be changing my party as soon as I get around to it (probably to independent) simply because the party has gone completely off the deep end. Chick-Fil-A Day pretty much sealed their tomb for me. I still agree with them on some fiscal things, but not all, and on one or two social issues, but their recent descent into hatred and madness has made it so that I don't want to be associated with them anymore.

And yes, you should be polite to people with beliefs different from your own, generally. But I'm sorry, there is no term for statements like "A woman's body can shut down pregnancy if it's rape" or "Slavery was a good thing in the long run" or "Evolution is from the pit of hell and we shouldn't teach it to anyone ever" other than "bat-shit insane" and I'm going to call it what it is. It's bat-shit insane. If we give respect to beliefs like that, it allows them to grow, and then ignorance spreads until people get hurt, laws and bills are passed, freedoms are restricted, and all we can do is shrug our shoulders and say "Well, I respect their beliefs." No. I won't.

EDIT: I didn't actually realize that Andara also used the term "batshit insane" in her post until after I posted this, but that's a coincidence that worked out well in making my point that it's the only term for this stuff

[TheHuckster]

Now, as for the notion that only Democrats are finding problems with the Republican party, I'd like to point out that I am a Republican, and have been ever since I could register to vote. However, I will almost certainly be changing my party as soon as I get around to it (probably to independent) simply because the party has gone completely off the deep end. Chick-Fil-A Day pretty much sealed their tomb for me. I still agree with them on some fiscal things, but not all, and on one or two social issues, but their recent descent into hatred and madness has made it so that I don't want to be associated with them anymore.

This really echoes my and many other Americans' sentiments. I am really thinking sometime real soon, not in this election but sometime in the next several elections, if nothing changes between the parties there's going to be a push by the voters to go for a more or less independent third party. I know people have been saying this for decades now, but it seems now more than ever people are fed up with not only the Republicans and the Democrat leaders but with the media pretending those are the only two choices and the overall barriers of entry from any other alternate political slant, and they are more apt to do something about it.

I just hope that new alternate slant isn't going to be some group that's too extreme on either left or right.

[Andara Bledin]

Well, if we did end up with another party, they could take up residence on either the moderate right or moderate left; the Democratic party is actually somewhere vaguely rightish of center at this point, and the Republican party is slowly taking up residence in cloudcuckooland.

^-.-^

[mikoyan29]

A third party would be nice but generally they came from the fringes of the politcal spectrum and not the middle. Although as members of the Democrats move to the left and Republicans move to the right and chase out the real moderates, we might start seeing a party formed around the moderates.

[Duelist925]

I'm saying there's all kinds of nuts out there and NOT just in the republican party.

No ones argueing that.

Slavery was and still is a terrible thing, American's didn't invent it but did unfortunately use it. Please remember not all slaves were harshly treated some in fact were treated very good but that still doesn't makeup for being property.

Im sorry. But no. Slaves, even the best treated, were sill property. There is no making up for that--and even the best treated, as smarter people than me have stated, were still treated like shit.

There is no defending a statement like "Slavery was good in the long run". There is none. Anyone who says something like that is either stupid, misinformed, or freaking racist as hell.

The evolution thing, that's his opinion and like everyone he's entitled to it. Personally I think it's wrong but.... I wouldn't vote for the guy. Can anyone here prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that mankind did evolve from lessor primates???

Beyond the shadow of a doubt? No. NO scientific theorum is provable beyond ANY doubt. None of them.

Evolution is still a fundamental part of multiple sciences, and SHOULD be taught. Declaing "its from the fires of satans anus!" is, frankly, stupid, and allowing one's faith to blind oneself.

Having a man like this on an important science based committee is, frankly, terrifying, and head desk worthy.

Just because evolution is not provable beyond the "Shadow of a doubt' (And I'd like to point out that you can't even prove to me that you're a real human being and not a robot beyong the "Shadow of a doubt"), does not mean this mans idiocy is excused.

I'll admit that I've avoided the Todd Akins thing simply because of the stupidity attached to it so I can't say what he or didn't intend to say. If abortion becomes illegal except for the life of the mother, incest and/or rape then wouldn't it be fair to say that some women would cry rape in order to get the abortion, when in fact they hadn't been raped???

Gee, its almost like when you deny a service to women who might need it for reasons other than the "Acceptable" Ones, they seek out less legal ways of finding it.

Look, I'm pro choice because I have absolutely no business telling a woman what to do with her body--thats between her, her obgyn, and her beliefs.

The fact that a man who lacks such basic knowledge of female anatomy is in a positon where he can dictate what women can and canot do with such anatomy is, again, frightening and facepalm worthy.

Not to mention the idea of "legitimate" Rape is disgusting beyond all else.

I think the gamer thing was grasping a straws. I think they're trying to appeal to older voters who see gaming as a waste of time.

Probably. A very stupid play, and it does stink of desperation.

The views on disabled children are many and varied, I don't see them as punishment but others do and that is their belief, they are entitled to their beliefs just as you are. Now personally I don't think they nor you should be ridiculed for those beliefs. I think the polite thing to say is I disagree. Calling someone stupid or dumbass for having different beliefs just sets yourself up for the same treatment.

...He stated that disabled children were gods punishment for abortions.

I'm sorry. But I refuse to respect beliefs like that. Frankly, I find them disgusting, and just barely this side of monstrous.

I want to be clear: I do not just disagree with such beliefs, I find them personal revolting, infuriating, and bigoted. Much the same as the "Slavery was a blessing in disguise!" beliefs, I find them, frankly, offensive.

I am willing to tolerate such beliefs. That is not the same as respecting them.I refuse to respect such disgusting statements.

I find these beliefs abhorrent--and anyone who harbors them to be, honestly, pos's.

There's more folks than not that have some sort of outrageous opinion about something that's not known to their friends and family. The rise of the internet and 24/7 news brings this out and the fact that lots and I mean lots of folks look for any reason to cast or not cast their vote for someone and then crow about their "superior" intellect. Maybe it's because I'm getting older and I'm starting into the latter years of my life that I see the need to be polite to one another is great, then again maybe I'm just becoming an old-fart and don't know shit.

I applaud your views on politeness on the net, honestly it is something lacking in many places.

But there are some things which require a very impolite response.

"Slavery was a blessing in disguise"

"Disabled children are gods punishment for abortions"

"A Womans body can shut down the pregnancy process in case of "legitimate" Rape"

All of these statements are, frankly, rife with ignorance and prejudice. They do not deserve respect. They barely deserve tolerance. And the fact that thse men are in positions of power terrifies me--because they can work to legislate their ignorance and prejudice. They can work to make sure that their beliefs dictate the law.

[Nekojin]

A third party would be nice but generally they came from the fringes of the politcal spectrum and not the middle. Although as members of the Democrats move to the left and Republicans move to the right and chase out the real moderates, we might start seeing a party formed around the moderates.

The only problem with that is that the Democrats haven't been moving to the left, they've been moving to the right. At this point, they're the "Moderate-vaguely-Right" party, and we don't have a Left-leaning party at all.

[TheHuckster]

The only problem with that is that the Democrats haven't been moving to the left, they've been moving to the right. At this point, they're the "Moderate-vaguely-Right" party, and we don't have a Left-leaning party at all.

I'm not sure what you mean. Democrats today are far more open to gay rights, and Obama especially has been hammering on raising taxes for the rich, plus setting up building blocks for a future overhauled health system. When I compare Obama and other Dems to past Democratic leaders like Clinton, Carter, and Johnson, I definitely see a shift to the left.

[HYHYBT]

Johnson put in Medicare, Clinton tried to do healthcare, and Carter would have done health care if Ted Kennedy, of all people, hadn't blocked it to improve his own chance at the presidency.

On the slavery thing... I don't know exactly what all connotations he meant to go with his statement, but it *could* be taken as nothing more than pointing out that, here in the 21st Century, the average American descended from slaves is better off than the average person living in Africa. Which, frankly, seems to me hard to argue with, so long as it stops there.

That's the best possible interpretation, and if it's right then there were better ways to say it, but it's not at all the same thing as saying that slavery itself was (or is, or would be) a good thing.

[TheHuckster]

Johnson put in Medicare, Clinton tried to do healthcare, and Carter would have done health care if Ted Kennedy, of all people, hadn't blocked it to improve his own chance at the presidency.

Okay, but healthcare is one of hundreds of political issues. How about environmentalism? Business regulations? Gay rights? On certain issues, Democrats may have gone a little right in some areas, but as a whole I think they're more left than previously.

On the slavery thing... I don't know exactly what all connotations he meant to go with his statement, but it *could* be taken as nothing more than pointing out that, here in the 21st Century, the average American descended from slaves is better off than the average person living in Africa. Which, frankly, seems to me hard to argue with, so long as it stops there.

That's the best possible interpretation, and if it's right then there were better ways to say it, but it's not at all the same thing as saying that slavery itself was (or is, or would be) a good thing.

I had that interpretation in mind as I was reading it, but in the end it seemed as though he was saying slavery had a positive net result. Also, one can't look solely at slavery in this regard. Most of Africa were colonized by Europe during that time and up until the early-mid 20th century... who knows how different that entire continent would have been had that never happened.

[HYHYBT]

Or this one, for that matter

[KnitShoni]

On the slavery thing... I don't know exactly what all connotations he meant to go with his statement, but it *could* be taken as nothing more than pointing out that, here in the 21st Century, the average American descended from slaves is better off than the average person living in Africa. Which, frankly, seems to me hard to argue with, so long as it stops there.

That statement is usually made by people with no clue about the life of the average person living in Africa. Those people only know what they're shown. Usually by people with a not-Africa friendly agenda.

It's also usually made by people who tend to forget that Africa is not a country. It's not all the same.

[Jester]

I am not a Republican. I am also not a Democrat. I have very proudly been a member of neither party for 20 years now, and enjoy making fun of both of them.

That being said, at this point in time, far more of the insanity is coming from the GOP than from the Dems. This is not pro-Democrat of me to say, it simply is. And frankly, I feel bad for my Republican friends. Because there are a lot of well-meaning and intelligent Republicans out there. And while we may not always agree on everything politically, I feel so bad for them that their party seems to have been taken over by nut jobs from the loony bin.

Like Michele Bachman. I don't think I need to elaborate on this one.

Then there's Todd Akin, and his "legitimate rape" and ideas that a woman's body will not impregnate from sperm that came from a rape. Yeah. Nut job.

Let's not forget Charlie Fuqua, the guy who said that disobedient children should be put to death.

And of course Jon Hubbard floated the idea that slavery may have been a good thing.

And let's not forget that bastion of insanity, Jan Brewer, the governor of my own home state of Arizona, who has claimed that illegal immigrants have beheaded people in the desert, despite there being no proof to that, and that her father died fighting the Nazis, even though he died in the Fifties from cancer and never served overseas.

Every one of these nuts is a Republican. So Tanasi, I'm sorry if you feel like people are singling out Republicans, but at the moment, all the complete wackaloons ARE Republicans. Hell, it's getting to the point where these people are making Sarah Palin look intelligent and reasonable by comparison!

Look, I'm not anti-Republican, I'm just against people who are clearly looney tunes being in positions of power that can affect my life. The day Jan Brewer leaves the governor's office is the day that Arizona improves for the better, in all likelihood; unless, of course, some wackier person gets the office. Considering the amount of delusional mental patients disguising themselves as politicians in Arizona these days, that's not completely out of the question.

As I said, I feel bad for the intelligent, reasonable, sane Republicans who are being painted with the same brush as these screwballs because they happen to have the same political affiliation.