Computer piracy debates

[Duelist925]

This worries me as well. It's part of the reason I'm not interested in the Kindle or Nook and I will still buy physical copies of movies. The storage aspect of going all digital is tempting, but all it takes is someone at DRM getting a stick up their rear end and all your movies/books are gone. I think there was an article posted here on Fratching about a lady who had her entire Amazon account suspended and couldn't get her content (too lazy to look up the thread). I can't remember what the circumstances were, but it's too easy for something like that to happen and that scares me.

This is one of the reasons I pirate a copy of pretty much anything I buy, digitaly or physical copy.

XKCD makes a damn good point.

My preferred e-reader is just a simple Kobo. Easy to use, and don't have to fuck around with it much.

Yeah, thats true. Steam is about the only digital service I trust in the long term. I certainly don't trust EA with Origin or worst yet, Ubisoft. Who, while they make good games, are fucking idjits when it comes to handling DRM.

I love steam. Im honestly hoping their business model gets studied by the "big boys" to make htem stop fucking around with DRM, at the very least.

[draco664]

You wouldn't steal a car, you wouldn't steal a handbag etc,

I might well steal a car - if the one I legally bought made me sit through an unskipable advertisement (about not stealing cars) every time I wanted to drive it anywhere...

[lordlundar]

I love steam. Im honestly hoping their business model gets studied by the "big boys" to make htem stop fucking around with DRM, at the very least.

EA is studying the Steam model.

The problem is it's Steam 1.0 otherwise known as "the P.O.S. from Valve that was universally hated" and they seem to think "gee, Valve, didn't do it right. We can make it much more malicious."

[Andrew B]

One of my favorite game series is not available in the states, with an exception of 3 games (out of 40!). I have to pirate it if I want to play it. That said, I do not believe in not paying for games that have an official release in the states. Encourage those games to be made if you can get them legally.

[s_stabeler]

The problem with a "try before you buy" model is there's no way for the developer to ensure you actually will buy it if you like it. Which is why the more appropriate option is to get a demo version, try that, then buy the full version if you like it.

and draco664: a) on most DVDs these days, that advert doesn't appear. b) the advert was put there in response to piracy, it wasn't the cause of it. The idea was to educate consumers about piracy.

I do agree, by the way, that DRM in it's current form is stupid. ( Steam does include DRM, IIRC, but invisibly. ( IIRC, the game is tied to your Steam account. if you can't log into your Steam account, you can't play the game.))

[draco664]

Actually, in the US, there is no legal distinction regarding abandonware. Copyright durations are extremely long; if Atari decided that they wanted to sue you over a bootleg copy of Pong (an actual bootleg, not a clone), they could do so. It's just as much of a copyright infringement as copying a current game/movie/album is. The only difference is that publishers typically only care about their current portfolio, and are highly unlikely to get litigious over something that they're not making any money on anyway.

Come on, you're talking about the kind of people who lobbied for punishments far beyond the harm the infringement causes. And then literally commit extortion by sending out demands for money with menaces. They'd sue anyone so long as they'd make a profit out of it.

What stops them from suing someone who infringes copyright on abandonware is their fear of setting a legal precedent. If a jury decided that someone who couldn't legally buy from the content owners because they no longer sold the item in question wasn't breaking the law by copying the item, then it becomes a whole new can of worms that other defendants could use in other cases.

[Duelist925]

The problem with a "try before you buy" model is there's no way for the developer to ensure you actually will buy it if you like it. Which is why the more appropriate option is to get a demo version, try that, then buy the full version if you like it.

and draco664: a) on most DVDs these days, that advert doesn't appear. b) the advert was put there in response to piracy, it wasn't the cause of it. The idea was to educate consumers about piracy.

I do agree, by the way, that DRM in it's current form is stupid. ( Steam does include DRM, IIRC, but invisibly. ( IIRC, the game is tied to your Steam account. if you can't log into your Steam account, you can't play the game.))

The problem with that however, is that by making it unskippable and annoying, the are inflicting a (admittedly small) punishment on the people who bought a LEGIT copy.

If they bought a legit copy, they aren't pirating. So why bother with the stupid unskippable vid?

[s_stabeler]

Essentially? it's unskippable to make sure people actually watch it, it's annoying because it's an old person's idea of how to get the attention of someone our age. ( incidentally, there is another reason- the guy who initially created it created it as a demonstration of what could be done, not as an actual finished product. Then somebody decided to use it as it was.)

in short, it's what happens when someone makes a decision on too little knowledge.

[wolfie]

The problem with that however, is that by making it unskippable and annoying, the are inflicting a (admittedly small) punishment on the people who bought a LEGIT copy.

If they bought a legit copy, they aren't pirating. So why bother with the stupid unskippable vid?

I saw a webcomic dealing with this (CS had a link to it). Basically, it showed the different experiences of someone with a pirate copy, and someone with a legit copy.

Pirate copy: Insert disk, watch movie. Pause, fast forward, and rewind work.

Legit copy: Insert disk, watch unskippable piracy warning, watch unskippable trailers for other movies, watch movie with pause, fast forward, and rewind disabled so you can't make a bathroom/snack run without missing part of the movie, and you can't go back and re-watch something interesting.

[mikoyan29]

I saw a webcomic dealing with this (CS had a link to it). Basically, it showed the different experiences of someone with a pirate copy, and someone with a legit copy.

Pirate copy: Insert disk, watch movie. Pause, fast forward, and rewind work.

Legit copy: Insert disk, watch unskippable piracy warning, watch unskippable trailers for other movies, watch movie with pause, fast forward, and rewind disabled so you can't make a bathroom/snack run without missing part of the movie, and you can't go back and re-watch something interesting.

One of the things I liked about DVDs was that you could watch the movie without all the other crap. Then they started to add the other crap but you could skip over them. Now they are making them where you can't skip over the crap. Gah.

[smileyeagle1021]

I actually find myself concerned with the current transition to digital media and cloud services whereby physical copies do not exist anymore and you have to trust your media collection to a corporation who can remove it from you at will any time they want to.

That concern isn't unjustified... consumerist did an article a while ago about how if you read the nitty gritty details of the Amazon Instant Video terms of use, they are not the actual holders of all content, just resellers of the rights... so if the actual content holder decides that they no longer like Amazon and revokes that privilege, guess what, you ain't streaming that video you have purchased on the cloud anymore... oh, and no refund either. I can't condone piracy, but seriously, I'm starting to understand it. If you are going to get screwed if you buy it legally and it comes down to you getting screwed or the studio getting screwed, I get screwing the studio before they can screw you (whatever happened to business being about equals getting together to perform transactions that benefited both parties).

Personally, there is only two situations where I will pirate. If I miss a broadcast, I will stream the show... DVR isn't available where I live, so it's not a matter of me not being willing to spend the money to record it legally and watch it later, I simply can't (Comcast's network can barely handle digital cable here, much less internet, voice, DVR, anything else fancy... seriously, the cable here hasn't been updated since 1986, it is actually a few months older than me). The other situation, and I don't do this in Salt Lake because it's not an issue, but it will be in Reno, is watching movies that are in the gap between in theaters and available on DVD/Bluray/Netflix/etc (we have enough bargain theaters in Salt Lake that this gap doesn't exist, seriously, they still play stuff in theaters after they are released on DVD, but Reno only has first run theaters, no bargain theaters). And if I could legally pay for it (either theater, rental, or purchase), I would, but that option isn't given during those couple of months. Often times, I ultimately do end up buying the disk when it comes out, so the studio is still getting their money out of me.

[Racket_Man]

I may be dating myself a bit but I remember when Doom and Quake first came out back in the mid 1990's

I know that both of these games had a "demo" but fully playable limited version. With Quake you could play the first 6 maps with NO restriction. Everything worked and played just like the full licensed version.

The last map was a Boss level. Once you had defeated the Boss and "went down the rabbit hole" to the next level the game would display the normal end of level message about defeating the level then stop (not freeeze) and take you back to the beginning.

I managed to download the demo version at work (I put on like 5 or 6 3 1/2 inch floppies) and installed it at home so I could play and try it. This is what induced me to actually plink down the cash and buy the full version (and kick it collective butt) and then to hunt down the secret Nightmare level.

I NEVER see this kind of thing anymore Maybe it is just too much effort on the producing companies or just to hard to impliment with todays complex gameplay.

[Andara Bledin]

Link to the Pirate vs Legal DVD Flowchart. Courtesy of Boing Boing.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

The Amazon deletes legally purchased Kindle books thread we had shows exactly why piracy will "reign supreme" over legitimate DRM purchases.

Years ago, manufacturers experimented with DRM-like security on DVDs when DIVX was introduced. You'd "buy" the disc for $4 and have 48 hours to watch it before you had to buy another license to view it again. It died because no one was shelling out the money for the players like the studios had hoped for.

Now that most DVD and BluRay players are active on your internet connection, either through your computer or the port on the back of the unit, what's to stop them from introducing it again?

[Nekojin]

Now that most DVD and BluRay players are active on your internet connection, either through your computer or the port on the back of the unit, what's to stop them from introducing it again?

Warez and sneaker-nets. Sneaker-nets are the one mode of software copying that is unlikely to ever be completely squashed.