Minimum Wage Increase

[Greenday]

Which is about a whopping 7% of minimum wage workers.

Source

some nice myths about low wage workers debunked as well.

Well, clearly we should sacrifice the 93% for the 7% who are teenagers.

[bara]

When discussing minimum wage I think its important to also keep in mind the massive disparity between what normal employees make in regards with what CEOs and upper management types are earning as well. Also I think its important to add in the fact that after they run a company into the ground and empty out employee retirement plans while making choices of questionable legality they are then granted a golden parachute after they quit or forced to retire.

[wolfie]

Well, clearly we should sacrifice the 93% for the 7% who are teenagers.

Clearly that's not going far enough. See below.

When discussing minimum wage I think its important to also keep in mind the massive disparity between what normal employees make in regards with what CEOs and upper management types are earning as well. Also I think its important to add in the fact that after they run a company into the ground and empty out employee retirement plans while making choices of questionable legality they are then granted a golden parachute after they quit or forced to retire.

Yep, we need to sacrifice the 99% for the benefit of the 1%.

BTW, I hope everyone realizes I was being sarcastic with my comments above.

[Racket_Man]

The one thing that is NOT discussed and talked about is the tipped minimum wage. Ya know the one that covers server/waitstaff, pizza delivery drivers, baggage handelers dealers in casinos, etc.??

Did you know that this particular wage has NOT been raised in 22 YEARS but we as tipped employees still are expected to MAKE MORE tips evey time the normal minimum wage goes up????? At least with normal minimum wages there is the POSSIBLITY of raises but NOT in the tipped world.

There are only 7 states in the US that do NOT allow tipped minimum wage.

[bara]

In reply to Racket:

I actually have a cool enough boss that I actually do get MORE than the state minimum wage to do my job and still get tips. Ill let the guy get away with a lot because of this. I make more delivering pizzas and rarely work 40 hours a week than I made as a salaried supervisor at a call center working 60-80 hours a week.

[Pixilated]

*snip*
Minimum wage up here is $10.25 ( US and Canadian dollar are equal atm too ). The cost of living is a little higher in Canada, but by the same measure you don't have medical expenses either. I can't imagine trying to live on like $7 an hour.

Nor can I. There'd be no way to do it without also signing up for whatever social assistance programs you qualify for and/or becoming a regular visitor to food banks.

Now, how does the cost of living vary in Canada across the country? I live in New Jersey and as far as the US goes, we have one of the highest costs of living in the entire country. You go out to the Midwest and your dollar can go a lot further. $10 an hour in NJ still won't get you very far at all.

I think it's pretty similar here. My Hometown is currently #3 in the country -- in terms of joblessness (go us!) On the other hand, Saskatchewan, where my brother lives, is at the other end of the spectrum -- when he first moved there, some 20 years ago, it was kind of a sleepy little place where the cost of living was quite low, but they are now doing a booming business with their natural resources and the cost of living there has shot up (comparatively speaking). However, it is also a place where (according to my brother) you can spend a day handing out resumes and go home to find your answering machine full up with job offers -- not "Call to set up an interview" but job offers -- they are that desperate for workers (yeah, these are basic minimum wage-or-just-slightly-higher type jobs, but from where I sit, the idea is still mind-boggling).

Last I heard, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and parts of British Columbia were doing extremely well, and I think that's reflect in their CoL. In fact, Alberta, being heavily dependent on its oil resources, was for a time on something of a roller-coaster ride -- we'd hear horror stories about people earning $50,000 annually who couldn't afford a place to live. Not sure how true that was.

The rest of the country is largely muddling along. Ontario has gone from "WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!" to crawling out of the wreckage (My Hometown has barely gotten that far; we are a sort of microcosm of misery unto ourselves.)

I think generally speaking,the cost of living is higher in the larger urban areas. It is sky-high in Toronto; minimum wage there will just about get you a grubby little broom closet that you will probably share with some roaches. My Hometown is actually a fairly large city, but it was almost totally dependent on The Big Three automakers and when they went down, they took the city with them, because the city government had never made much of a push to diversify. There's an apartment building nearby that has had a sign up for years offering two-bedroom units for $725 (not sure whether that's with or without utilities). A lot of apartment buildings, rather than lowering rents, are trying to offer extra amenities (free heat, for example) to lure people in. Food and gas and whatnot, well, there's not a lot of bargains to be had there, no matter where you live.

[lordlundar]

In fact, Alberta, being heavily dependent on its oil resources, was for a time on something of a roller-coaster ride -- we'd hear horror stories about people earning $50,000 annually who couldn't afford a place to live. Not sure how true that was.

Partially true. Yes, areas around the Oil Sands are much more expensive to live in than other areas of the province, but it's more because those areas are a sellers market. There's so many people trying to move there to avoid a 6+ hour trip between on-off cycles that sellers can easily afford to to charge upwards to three times the provincial average.

[Racket_Man]

In reply to Racket:

I actually have a cool enough boss that I actually do get MORE than the state minimum wage to do my job and still get tips. Ill let the guy get away with a lot because of this. I make more delivering pizzas and rarely work 40 hours a week than I made as a salaried supervisor at a call center working 60-80 hours a week.

You are the exception to the rule. most of the tipped employees are not so lucky.

and as a delivery driver throw in the cost of maintaining your vehicle and paying for insurance and state license out of your own pocket as most pizza companies way under compensate their dirvers for the abuse of their vehicles.

[Gravekeeper]

Now, how does the cost of living vary in Canada across the country? I live in New Jersey and as far as the US goes, we have one of the highest costs of living in the entire country. You go out to the Midwest and your dollar can go a lot further. $10 an hour in NJ still won't get you very far at all.

Each province sets its own minimum wage in accordance with its own cost of living for the most part. I mean you're not going to be living in a condo in the very middle of downtown Vancouver or Toronto on minimum wage by any means. But rent drops by like 50% for every 20 minutes you spend on the Skytrain to get downtown.

For me its about 45-60 minutes to work, I could cut it down to 30-40 or so if I took the bus instead of walking. I have a 1 bedroom and it runs me $600 a month, all utilities included, I have radiant underfloor heating and a security system + they let me have a cat. Only thing I pay for out of pocket is my phone bill. I'm also within walking distance of a farmer's market for dirt cheap groceries.

Throw in a social safety net and free health care and yeah, I can't exactly complain about the cost of living in a major Canadian city. Even if I was broke and had no job skills, I could move an hour away to Abbotsford or Chilliwack and rent a 2 bedroom house for what I pay for a 1 bedroom apartment here. Even in the smaller cities and towns around Vancouver there are major employers who prefer to have large operations within driving distance of Vancouver rather than pay for operating costs directly in Vancouver.

[crashhelmet]

Each province sets its own minimum wage in accordance with its own cost of living for the most part. I mean you're not going to be living in a condo in the very middle of downtown Vancouver or Toronto on minimum wage by any means. But rent drops by like 50% for every 20 minutes you spend on the Skytrain to get downtown.

For me its about 45-60 minutes to work, I could cut it down to 30-40 or so if I took the bus instead of walking. I have a 1 bedroom and it runs me $600 a month, all utilities included, I have radiant underfloor heating and a security system + they let me have a cat. Only thing I pay for out of pocket is my phone bill. I'm also within walking distance of a farmer's market for dirt cheap groceries.

Throw in a social safety net and free health care and yeah, I can't exactly complain about the cost of living in a major Canadian city. Even if I was broke and had no job skills, I could move an hour away to Abbotsford or Chilliwack and rent a 2 bedroom house for what I pay for a 1 bedroom apartment here. Even in the smaller cities and towns around Vancouver there are major employers who prefer to have large operations within driving distance of Vancouver rather than pay for operating costs directly in Vancouver.

Damn... Maybe I need to listen to my friends and move to Winnipeg

[lordlundar]

Each province sets its own minimum wage in accordance with its own cost of living for the most part.

To add, there is a federal mandated level which a province cannot go below. Provinces can set a higher than the federal level but not below it.

[Fuzzykitten99]

I had to chime in on this because it is apparent that no one here has ever had their business that employs others, or has the ability to.

My and my husband's retail store has to maintain a certain percentage of mark-up to cover expenses.

Our percentages seem to now cover just what we need to break even. Our business seems to be increasing. But... we still don't bring in enough to pay someone even part time. We can't even afford to pay me, and I am here 5-7 days a week, often 10-12 hours a day with few breaks. I tried working an outside job last year, figuring that we could pay a small part-time position and just use part of my income to pay him if the sales fell short. Well... the sales were a bit slower, and what we didn't anticipate were the additional employment taxes that were involved. Therefore, after 2 months, I had to quit my job and we had to lay-off our PT person, and I went back to running it FT.

Now that Obamacare is in order, our tax liability is higher by $6,000/year because we are a tobacco retailer. That's pretty much a guarantee that we won't be hiring any time soon. Especially since because our gross income is over $250k, we don't get to partake in Obamacare, yet we are being forced to help pay for it. Then because after all our business expenses and other taxes, we still cannot afford to pay high self-employment health insurance premiums for a family of 7 (2 adults, 5 kids), we are penalized another $2500 or 1% of our income, whichever is higher. So... our net income last year was $21,000 (try supporting a family of 7 on that)... 1% of $21000 is $210, so since that is less than the $2500 penalty, we will pay $2500 minimum. And we are still don't qualify for any state healthcare programs because they look at gross income, not net. So... we get taxed and pay for Obamacare, but don't get to participate, and now we are penalized because of no ability to get healthcare. These numbers are accurate from our CPA. But of course, he took the time to read the tax bill that was passed and the other documents that were sent to him via IRS, even though our representatives who voted for (and exempted themselves from) did not.

If minimum wage goes up, that is even more guarantee that no one is getting hired. Why? Because even at the current wage in MN being $7.25, we were only able to pay for 15 hours maximum, and then add state and federal employment taxes that we pay (the employee pays only a small part, we have to pick up the tab on the rest), as well as local tobacco (70% wholesale) and sales tax (7.125%), we pay more to the local AND Federal taxes to the government than we pay the employee for a measly 15 hours work.

Even then, the work that needed to be done in my shop isn't worth much because it isn't all that demanding. There are stretches of several hours when no one comes in, or it can be very busy. But it all comes down to how much actual work is involved and what is the return on investment with the employee? If the employee proves to be a good sales person and we see revenues going up daily, you can bet we will reward them with something, like maybe a commission % or something. But if we consistently see low numbers where we would normally see higher sales... do you think we will continue to sustain being able to pay that employee much less be forced to give them a raise to $9 or $10 when our current company economics cannot even sustain $7.25?

You could go ahead and say that higher wages mean that more people will buy stuff in my shop. Well...maybe and maybe not, but thus far the tax situation has caused even larger companies than us to cut hours and lay off employees. One of my best customers who has spent tons of money here, is a medical parts machinist. The company he works for has just lost 60% of its' customer/sales base because they don't want to pay the increase from the Medical Parts Tax. They are changing their sources to China. That means that if the company he works for can't get more work to keep him on staff within the next two months the whole crew is getting laid off and the owners themselves will be the ones running the parts to keep their company going. If my customer loses his job, he no longer has an income to pay for the items in my store. Meaning we lose our income. Multiply that over other various areas of all employers throughout the state, and we lose our customer base, potentially losing our business if enough of our customer base finds themselves in the same situation. Does that sound like good economics to you?

The high taxes already prohibit us small businesses from creating jobs. Jobs that would otherwise bring in other revenue to the state. Those on here who say employers are shortsighted for not paying more, obviously don't own nor have ever owned a business that employed others.

I see people saying that businesses will just have to raise their prices. That is true. Many will. But then how far will that new 'higher wage' go, when prices go up with their 'raise'? Also, with my particular store, if we raise prices, we won't be in the rage of price with our competition. So why would someone pay more for an item they can get down the road for $2-$3 cheaper? Or even online? We have to compete with online sales of cigars that cost 1/3 of what we sell them for because the MN State tobacco tax is 70%, which has to be paid even before we put the items on the shelf to sell them. If we raise prices, it makes it even harder for us to compete with online sales.

Go ahead and blame 'the rich' employers who have the weight of the companies on their shoulders (be them big or small). There are unseen costs of employing others that you as just employees don't see and are often not told about.

Last I checked, no one ever got a paycheck from someone who made minimum wage and there are only so many employees that a company can afford to pay and stay competitive, as well as make a profit (which is supposed to be a good thing). Bad-mouth the higher-earners (the oh-so awful rich people I read many of you complaining about) all you want but they are the ones that have the disposable income to buy many of the discretionary items that pay for your paychecks. I know my business relies on those with discretionary spending money. Instead of wasting time and energy complaining about them, why not spend more energy getting yourself to their income level, if that is what you really want?

For more reading enjoyment, here is a good article on the subject only recently printed in our local paper about how government forced raises don't do anything to help anyone:

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/c...192618421.html

[crashhelmet]

I had to chime in on this because it is apparent that no one here has ever had their business that employs others, or has the ability to.

My and my husband's retail store has to maintain a certain percentage of mark-up to cover expenses.

You don't have to maintain a percentage, you have to maintain a certain amount. Businesses set a percentage as a guideline to cover expenses and provide a desired profit.

If my total operating expenses (Rent, utilities, wages, taxes, product costs, etc) go from 80% to 85% because of an increase in minimum wage or Obamacare, I'm still making a 15% profit instead of just 20%. However, businesses demand to keep that 20% and either raise their prices or cut their expenses by laying off workers. Sometimes they do both.

Our percentages seem to now cover just what we need to break even. Our business seems to be increasing. But... we still don't bring in enough to pay someone even part time. We can't even afford to pay me, and I am here 5-7 days a week, often 10-12 hours a day with few breaks. I tried working an outside job last year, figuring that we could pay a small part-time position and just use part of my income to pay him if the sales fell short. Well... the sales were a bit slower, and what we didn't anticipate were the additional employment taxes that were involved. Therefore, after 2 months, I had to quit my job and we had to lay-off our PT person, and I went back to running it FT.

Now that Obamacare is in order, our tax liability is higher by $6,000/year because we are a tobacco retailer. That's pretty much a guarantee that we won't be hiring any time soon. Especially since because our gross income is over $250k, we don't get to partake in Obamacare, yet we are being forced to help pay for it. Then because after all our business expenses and other taxes, we still cannot afford to pay high self-employment health insurance premiums for a family of 7 (2 adults, 5 kids), we are penalized another $2500 or 1% of our income, whichever is higher. So... our net income last year was $21,000 (try supporting a family of 7 on that)... 1% of $21000 is $210, so since that is less than the $2500 penalty, we will pay $2500 minimum. And we are still don't qualify for any state healthcare programs because they look at gross income, not net. So... we get taxed and pay for Obamacare, but don't get to participate, and now we are penalized because of no ability to get healthcare. These numbers are accurate from our CPA. But of course, he took the time to read the tax bill that was passed and the other documents that were sent to him via IRS, even though our representatives who voted for (and exempted themselves from) did not.

$250k gross to $21k net? Do you pay yourselves wages or just consider the company's profit to be "your money." This sounds like you need a new CPA.

If minimum wage goes up, that is even more guarantee that no one is getting hired. Why? Because even at the current wage in MN being $7.25, we were only able to pay for 15 hours maximum, and then add state and federal employment taxes that we pay (the employee pays only a small part, we have to pick up the tab on the rest), as well as local tobacco (70% wholesale) and sales tax (7.125%), we pay more to the local AND Federal taxes to the government than we pay the employee for a measly 15 hours work.

Even then, the work that needed to be done in my shop isn't worth much because it isn't all that demanding. There are stretches of several hours when no one comes in, or it can be very busy. But it all comes down to how much actual work is involved and what is the return on investment with the employee? If the employee proves to be a good sales person and we see revenues going up daily, you can bet we will reward them with something, like maybe a commission % or something. But if we consistently see low numbers where we would normally see higher sales... do you think we will continue to sustain being able to pay that employee much less be forced to give them a raise to $9 or $10 when our current company economics cannot even sustain $7.25?

MN House committee approves minimum wage hike

This isn't looking good for you.

Is there anything you can do to cut back costs? Change your hours of operation to coincide with sales forecasts, for example? Is it worth it to be open early/late for small sales amounts? Do you carry more stock than you truly need?

You could go ahead and say that higher wages mean that more people will buy stuff in my shop. Well...maybe and maybe not, but thus far the tax situation has caused even larger companies than us to cut hours and lay off employees. One of my best customers who has spent tons of money here, is a medical parts machinist. The company he works for has just lost 60% of its' customer/sales base because they don't want to pay the increase from the Medical Parts Tax. They are changing their sources to China. That means that if the company he works for can't get more work to keep him on staff within the next two months the whole crew is getting laid off and the owners themselves will be the ones running the parts to keep their company going. If my customer loses his job, he no longer has an income to pay for the items in my store. Meaning we lose our income. Multiply that over other various areas of all employers throughout the state, and we lose our customer base, potentially losing our business if enough of our customer base finds themselves in the same situation. Does that sound like good economics to you?

All businesses face this and this is one of the biggest reasons our economy tanked. People ended up out of work and no longer able to afford things. But as I said earlier, the cost of living never dropped back down to adjust to the decrease in earnings.

The high taxes already prohibit us small businesses from creating jobs. Jobs that would otherwise bring in other revenue to the state. Those on here who say employers are shortsighted for not paying more, obviously don't own nor have ever owned a business that employed others.

As a small business, you should also be getting more tax breaks. Again, I'd make sure your CPA was on the up and up. Accounting errors, fraud are common problems for small businesses

I see people saying that businesses will just have to raise their prices. That is true. Many will. But then how far will that new 'higher wage' go, when prices go up with their 'raise'? Also, with my particular store, if we raise prices, we won't be in the rage of price with our competition. So why would someone pay more for an item they can get down the road for $2-$3 cheaper? Or even online? We have to compete with online sales of cigars that cost 1/3 of what we sell them for because the MN State tobacco tax is 70%, which has to be paid even before we put the items on the shelf to sell them. If we raise prices, it makes it even harder for us to compete with online sales.

Go ahead and blame 'the rich' employers who have the weight of the companies on their shoulders (be them big or small). There are unseen costs of employing others that you as just employees don't see and are often not told about.

But again, how many of these price increases are to maintain a percentage when they can still stay afloat without? I understand you're in business to make a profit, but at what point does that go from "reasonable" to "greedy"?

Last I checked, no one ever got a paycheck from someone who made minimum wage and there are only so many employees that a company can afford to pay and stay competitive, as well as make a profit (which is supposed to be a good thing). Bad-mouth the higher-earners (the oh-so awful rich people I read many of you complaining about) all you want but they are the ones that have the disposable income to buy many of the discretionary items that pay for your paychecks. I know my business relies on those with discretionary spending money. Instead of wasting time and energy complaining about them, why not spend more energy getting yourself to their income level, if that is what you really want?

For more reading enjoyment, here is a good article on the subject only recently printed in our local paper about how government forced raises don't do anything to help anyone:

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/c...192618421.html

The article is only one side of the problem. it brings up a valid and very important point and then uses it to destroy the reason behind raising minimum wage.

For example, speaking of the possibility of a minimum-wage increase in Minnesota, state Sen. Chris Eaton, DFL-Brooklyn Center, told the Austin Herald: “It addresses a basic value we hold in Minnesota. That honest, hardworking people deserve a fair and living wage.”

So saying, Eaton confuses personal moral values with universal economic principles. Her value-based rationale for increasing the minimum wage, however laudable, has no causal connection to achievable results.

Universal Economic Principles? There's nothing more universal than the laws of supply and demand. If there's no income, there's no demand, yet businesses aren't reducing their prices. in fact, they're constantly raising their prices for whatever reason. Whether it's the cost of gas for shipping and distribution, taxes, weather, or greed. Gas alone has more than doubled since the last time minimum wage was increased. Big Macs used to be $.99. Now they're $2.99. Milk is quickly approaching $5 gallon, if it hasn't exceeded it already. But we're still making the same money we were before, assuming we still have a job.

You can't have a thriving economy when no one can afford to spend money. When you have no money to spend, you concentrate on necessities, not luxuries.

I'd rather spend my last $10 on 2 gallons of milk than on a single pack of cigarettes

[Seifer]

Instead of wasting time and energy complaining about them, why not spend more energy getting yourself to their income level, if that is what you really want?

Because not everyone can become rich through hard work. It just doesn't happen. I busted my ass at my minimum wage job for 6 years, and when I finally left, I was still making less than $8 an hour. I could barely afford food and gas, let alone bills. This wasn't a company that "couldn't afford" to pay me more, either. It's a HUGE company that is known world-wide, and one way they keep their profits is by paying their employees the absolute barest minimum they can by law.

I'm sorry your business isn't doing well. Many small businesses don't. It takes a lot of work and money to get a business to the point where it turns a profit, and many businesses just can't sustain themselves long enough to do that. If you can't afford employees, then you can't afford employees. For the businesses that can (like Wal-Mart, Disney, etc), they CAN afford to give their employees decent wages and healthcare - they just don't want to because it will cut into their profits.

[Gravekeeper]

Yes, minimum wage isn't the problem with your business to be honest. Its a poor economy and you sell a luxury item. While businesses much larger than you. and the assholes in politics they employ, are dead set on sucking the corpse of the US economy dry before they make the slightest concession to help it improve. Much like 99% of the country, you're largely a victim of wealth consolidation at the top. If the 99% doesn't have any money, they can't buy anything. They go into save mode and hold onto what money they have instead of putting it back into the economy.

CEO Joe Asshole at the top is doing the same thing, hording his money to make more money, moving it off shore, soaking up capital gains. Everyone is taking money out and holding onto it.