Senate votes YAY on Amendment 139 - uphold the 2A

[PepperElf]

This past Monday the Senate finally had their vote on the UN Arms treaty, under Amendment 139

Statement of Purpose: To uphold Second Amendment rights and prevent the United States from entering into the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty.

Although the UN claims this treaty wouldn't interfere with civilian rights, it would set up mandatory firearms transfer laws - which pretty much circumvents our own current debate on UBC.


However the Senate has decided to NOT follow the UN's treaty, which… to me says the "UBC debate" will be on our terms, without the UN dictating it to us.

The split was 53 - yay to 43 - nay

Voting, sorted by vote position

[Greenday]

Voting, sorted by vote position

I looked at that and only found one of my senators. I was like "Where the hell is Lautenberg!?" He didn't vote. I'm not surprised Menendez voted Nay. I can't stand him. I normally don't care so much about our local politicians because our liberals are liberal and our conservatives tend to be liberal (As far as the whole nation is concerned) but Menendez is ridiculous.

I'm always split on UN stuff. I think a world government is the way to world peace. But a lot of times it just doesn't benefit our (USA) citizens.

[daleduke17]

And of course old Dick Durbin had to vote nay. Can someone in Illinois please get that guy out of office? He was originally a pretty decent Senator, but, has been corrupted by that "D - IL" at the end of his name. At least Kirk has some common sense.

I'd run for Senator, however, no political history and with an "I" or "L" at the end of my name would not endear me to the voters in Illinois (North, South or Chicago).

[Hyena Dandy]

Since we're talking about a national debate, I've found the relevant section of the treaty and copy-pasted.

1. We, the States participating in this Conference, bearing in mind the
different situations, capacities and priorities of States and regions, undertake
the following measures to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit trade in
small arms and light weapons in all its aspects:
At the national level
2. To put in place, where they do not exist, adequate laws, regulations and
administrative procedures to exercise effective control over the production of
small arms and light weapons within their areas of jurisdiction and over the
export, import, transit or retransfer of such weapons, in order to prevent illegal
manufacture of and illicit trafficking in small arms and light weapons, or their
diversion to unauthorized recipients.
3. To adopt and implement, in the States that have not already done so, the
necessary legislative or other measures to establish as criminal offences under
their domestic law the illegal manufacture, possession, stockpiling and trade of
small arms and light weapons within their areas of jurisdiction, in order to
ensure that those engaged in such activities can be prosecuted under
appropriate national penal codes.
4. To establish, or designate as appropriate, national coordination agencies
or bodies and institutional infrastructure responsible for policy guidance,
research and monitoring of efforts to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit
trade in small arms and light weapons in all its aspects. This should include
aspects of the illicit manufacture, control, trafficking, circulation, brokering
and trade, as well as tracing, finance, collection and destruction of small arms
and light weapons.
5. To establish or designate, as appropriate, a national point of contact to act
as liaison between States on matters relating to the implementation of the
Programme of Action.
6. To identify, where applicable, groups and individuals engaged in the
illegal manufacture, trade, stockpiling, transfer, possession, as well as
financing for acquisition, of illicit small arms and light weapons, and take
action under appropriate national law against such groups and individuals.
7. To ensure that henceforth licensed manufacturers apply an appropriate
and reliable marking on each small arm and light weapon as an integral part of
the production process. This marking should be unique and should identify the
country of manufacture and also provide information that enables the national
authorities of that country to identify the manufacturer and serial number so
that the authorities concerned can identify and trace each weapon.
8. To adopt where they do not exist and enforce, all the necessary measures
to prevent the manufacture, stockpiling, transfer and possession of any
unmarked or inadequately marked small arms and light weapons.
9. To ensure that comprehensive and accurate records are kept for as long as
possible on the manufacture, holding and transfer of small arms and light
A/CONF.192/15
11
weapons under their jurisdiction. These records should be organized and
maintained in such a way as to ensure that accurate information can be
promptly retrieved and collated by competent national authorities.
10. To ensure responsibility for all small arms and light weapons held and
issued by the State and effective measures for tracing such weapons.
11. To assess applications for export authorizations according to strict
national regulations and procedures that cover all small arms and light
weapons and are consistent with the existing responsibilities of States under
relevant international law, taking into account in particular the risk of
diversion of these weapons into the illegal trade. Likewise, to establish or
maintain an effective national system of export and import licensing or
authorization, as well as measures on international transit, for the transfer of
all small arms and light weapons, with a view to combating the illicit trade in
small arms and light weapons.
12. To put in place and implement adequate laws, regulations and
administrative procedures to ensure the effective control over the export and
transit of small arms and light weapons, including the use of authenticated
end-user certificates and effective legal and enforcement measures.
13. To make every effort, in accordance with national laws and practices,
without prejudice to the right of States to re-export small arms and light
weapons that they have previously imported, to notify the original exporting
State in accordance with their bilateral agreements before the retransfer of
those weapons.
14. To develop adequate national legislation or administrative procedures
regulating the activities of those who engage in small arms and light weapons
brokering. This legislation or procedures should include measures such as
registration of brokers, licensing or authorization of brokering transactions as
well as the appropriate penalties for all illicit brokering activities performed
within the State’s jurisdiction and control.
15. To take appropriate measures, including all legal or administrative
means, against any activity that violates a United Nations Security Council
arms embargo in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
16. To ensure that all confiscated, seized or collected small arms and light
weapons are destroyed, subject to any legal constraints associated with the
preparation of criminal prosecutions, unless another form of disposition or use
has been officially authorized and provided that such weapons have been duly
marked and registered.
17. To ensure, subject to the respective constitutional and legal systems of
States, that the armed forces, police or any other body authorized to hold small
arms and light weapons establish adequate and detailed standards and
procedures relating to the management and security of their stocks of these
weapons. These standards and procedures should, inter alia, relate to:
appropriate locations for stockpiles; physical security measures; control of
access to stocks; inventory management and accounting control; staff training;
security, accounting and control of small arms and light weapons held or
A/CONF.192/15
12
transported by operational units or authorized personnel; and procedures and
sanctions in the event of thefts or loss.
18. To regularly review, as appropriate, subject to the respective
constitutional and legal systems of States, the stocks of small arms and light
weapons held by armed forces, police and other authorized bodies and to
ensure that such stocks declared by competent national authorities to be
surplus to requirements are clearly identified, that programmes for the
responsible disposal, preferably through destruction, of such stocks are
established and implemented and that such stocks are adequately safeguarded
until disposal.
19. To destroy surplus small arms and light weapons designated for
destruction, taking into account, inter alia, the report of the Secretary-General
of the United Nations on methods of destruction of small arms, light weapons,
ammunition and explosives (S/2000/1092) of 15 November 2000.
20. To develop and implement, including in conflict and post-conflict
situations, public awareness and confidence-building programmes on the
problems and consequences of the illicit trade in small arms and light weapons
in all its aspects, including, where appropriate, the public destruction of
surplus weapons and the voluntary surrender of small arms and light weapons,
if possible, in cooperation with civil society and non-governmental
organizations, with a view to eradicating the illicit trade in small arms and
light weapons.
21. To develop and implement, where possible, effective disarmament,
demobilization and reintegration programmes, including the effective
collection, control, storage and destruction of small arms and light weapons,
particularly in post-conflict situations, unless another form of disposition or
use has been duly authorized and such weapons have been marked and the
alternate form of disposition or use has been recorded, and to include, where
applicable, specific provisions for these programmes in peace agreements.
22. To address the special needs of children affected by armed conflict, in
particular the reunification with their family, their reintegration into civil
society, and their appropriate rehabilitation.
23. To make public national laws, regulations and procedures that impact on
the prevention, combating and eradicating of the illicit trade in small arms and
light weapons in all its aspects and to submit, on a voluntary basis, to relevant
regional and international organizations and in accordance with their national
practices, information on, inter alia, (a) small arms and light weapons
confiscated or destroyed within their jurisdiction; and (b) other relevant
information such as illicit trade routes and techniques of acquisition that can
contribute to the eradication of the illicit trade in small arms and light weapons
in all its aspects.

I hope this makes discussion easier.

[HYHYBT]

So what part of ghat is supposed to be so horrible?

[Greenday]

So what part of ghat is supposed to be so horrible?

It basically just involves the government tracking who has guns. It couldn't possibly be a bad idea for the government to know who owns every single gun, could it? No way that could bite the citizens in the ass.

[Hyena Dandy]

It couldn't possibly be a bad idea for the government to know who owns every single gun, could it?

If you bought a gun made in the US, this will not effect you. So the government won't know who has every single gun, even in the most broad interpretation of end-user.

However, I'm trying to figure out what an end-user certificate actually is, and I've found conflicting information. If you are importing a weapon for yourself, the government already knows about that - You have to apply to import a weapon, and in the application, say what your use is. The end-user, according to that interpretation, would not be the person purchasing the gun, but the person selling it. I have also seen claims that the end-user would be the person purchasing the gun from a gun store.

I've even seen claims that an end-user would be someone buying a gun from someone buying a gun from a gun show. That, I can say based on this, however, is untrue - Once an item is imported, it is imported, and a gun show would be covered by international, not national, law.

I am inclined to believe that that would be true of buying a gun at a gun store - Under international law, a transfer, which is what this is talking about, requires that an item cross borders AND change hands.

If I purchased a gun in America, and took the gun with me to Canada on holiday, then came back, I wouldn't be subject to this (though I would be to Canadian customs regulations regarding firearms.) If I purchased a gun in America, took it to Canada, and gave it to Gravekeeper, that would count as a transfer. If I took it to Canada, gave it to Gravekeeper, then Gravekeeper gave the gun to his next door neighbor, Gravekeeper and I would have been involved in a gun transfer, but the neighbor would not - Unless Gravekeeper had specifically wanted the gun FOR the neighbor. (That is, if Gravekeeper had wanted it for himself, but got tired of it, and gave it to his neighbor, that's not a transfer. If Gravekeeper said to me "Hyena Dandy, my neighbor wants a gun, give me yours and I'll give it to him" then all three of us would.)

I can't get a specific answer, though, from what I've found. I will, however, send an e-mail to the Australian Department of Defense, since they require end-user certificates for exporting firearms, and ask them what is necessary.

Additionally, according to the U.S. Department of Defense

There will be no restrictions on civilian possession or trade of firearms otherwise permitted by law or protected by the U.S. Constitution. There will be no dilution or diminishing of sovereign control over issues involving the private acquisition, ownership, or possession of firearms, which must remain matters of domestic law.

However, I realize that many people think that the government might be lying and secretly plotting to regulate that anyway with this treaty, so I'm attempting to figure everything out personally as best I can.