HRC Supports Inequality?

[siead_lietrathua]

the marriage equality movement i don't have a huge issue with, but it's actually because it might end up being a slippery slope in a good way. having "gay culture" become "normal" in society will make it easier, in the long run, for the rest of the queer spectrum to hop one square closer to "normal". each change is it's own debate, and should be judged on it's own merits, but as people start treating each other like humans it will be more obvious which changed are good, like equal marriage, and which ones would be more of a legislative nightmare, like poly marriage*.
however, yes, this hypocritical bullshit from the pro-equality side does need to stop. Trans people are PEOPLE! stop treating them like things, or sub human, because they are different. freaking pisses me off to no end.


*while i am poly, and love the idea of multiple marriage partners, i'm aware that it makes things incredibly complicated to have multiple legal partners if one were to die without a will. i agree with canada's system, where only one legal partner is allowed but multi-partner households are not illegal between consenting adults.

[LewisLegion]

I never got that mindset, ever. You've been discriminated against so it's ok to discriminate? I remember when I found out that bi's tended to be criticized by the rest of the gay community, I was so utterly flabbergasted. I couldn't understand it. Same with transgender. I just don't get it.

Then again, I never could get discriminating against anyone for any arbitrary characteristic. Are you an asshole? Then I will avoid and ignore you. Are you otherwise? Then I am happy to interact with you, and let you live your life however makes you happy. Maybe its the Asperger's but I have never understood the absolute rabid intent of most of the human race to have an 'us against them' mindset.

[smileyeagle1021]

I can understand some of the animosity against trans* people. It is a very confusing situation, and I'll be the first to admit that I simply cannot comprehend feeling like I had been born the wrong gender, and I'll also admit it is a bit uncomfortable thinking about it, because it is such a foreign feeling... that said, I don't allow a lack of understanding to turn into hatred, a lot of people it is a lot easier to just form a prejudice and become transphobic than it is to face their own lack of understanding.

[LewisLegion]

^ exactly. For someone who's never felt that way it's hard to imagine...just as it's hard to imagine if you're a straight person the concept of feeling attracted to or romantically fulfilled by a member of your own gender. Kudos to you for not following the mindset of an unfortunate number of others who thence make the conclusion 'well, I can't imagine feeling that way and the very idea repulses me, therefore, you can't actually feel that way and therefore are being repulsive on purpose.'

I just wish I could take the collective humanity by the lapels and say 'look, everyone is different. You don't have to understand everyone or expect everyone to understand you. That's ok. Just don't be an asshole.'

[crashhelmet]

But it's not just the Trans portion of the community that's being discriminated against. one of the people that was turned away was gay and an undocumented immigrant.

Today HRC asked a speaker from United We Dream’s Queer Undocumented Immigrant Project to not mention that he was undocumented — because heaven forfend anyone realize that immigration rights issues touch our community too!

You're gay? Cool! Come join us! Oh... wait... You're undocumented? Oh, sorry. Can you just stand in the back there and keep your mouth shut? KTHNXBAI!


And as far as not fighting Prop 8 because they didn't want it to goto the Supreme Court because they thought they'd lose? What kind of organization picks and chooses the fights they fight based on what they can win? You have to take the losses too. Once you show you're not supporting your "cause", you lose the support you have.

[HYHYBT]

And as far as not fighting Prop 8 because they didn't want it to goto the Supreme Court because they thought they'd lose? What kind of organization picks and chooses the fights they fight based on what they can win? You have to take the losses too. Once you show you're not supporting your "cause", you lose the support you have.

It's never that simple. Given more fights than resources, it becomes necessary to pick and choose, and it's only sensible to choose the ones with a better combination of widespread effect and chance of success. The problem with a loss (in a fight that you could have postponed until a better time) is precedent. Literally, for a court challenge; the Baker decision is old enough in a changing field that it wouldn't be worth much even if they'd done anything other than basically decided not to take the case, but if the court *now* upholds Prop 8, that puts the equal protection/due process argument out the window for many years to come. With ballot measures, a failure means a lot of time, energy, and money down the drain that you then won't have available for something else or to go the next election cycle instead; it also means that if you do go again right away, a lot of those movable people you need will be against you from the outset simply because they're sick of the topic and voted already.

Because of the way the case went at trial and appeals levels, P8 is likely to be dead this summer even if it doesn't take its equivalents with it. But that's more than could be known at the time it was filed, and the later the case reaches the Supreme Court, the more likely a gay-friendly result... and the more chance for certain justices to be replaced in the meanwhile. Pragmatism isn't fun, and it isn't pretty, but it's hardly absurd either.

I can understand some of the animosity against trans* people. It is a very confusing situation, and I'll be the first to admit that I simply cannot comprehend feeling like I had been born the wrong gender, and I'll also admit it is a bit uncomfortable thinking about it, because it is such a foreign feeling... that said, {{{{{I don't allow a lack of understanding to turn into hatred,}}}} a lot of people it is a lot easier to just form a prejudice and become transphobic than it is to face their own lack of understanding.

The marked part is where I get lost. Setting aside "allow," what I want to know is how people get from "I don't understand how someone can feel that way" to "I hate people who feel that way" or "people who feel that way are evil."

[smileyeagle1021]

The marked part is where I get lost. Setting aside "allow," what I want to know is how people get from "I don't understand how someone can feel that way" to "I hate people who feel that way" or "people who feel that way are evil."

There is an old saying, "You fear what you don't understand, and you hate what you fear"
If you don't allow yourself to be afraid, you won't grow to hate.

[HYHYBT]

I fear tornadoes because I *do* understand them

[Duelist925]

I fear tornadoes because I *do* understand them

Yes, but you are a being of some intelligence and basic thought capabilities!

Far too many have the instinctive response of "This strange! Must be evil! Oog smash!"

I myself get that way with bugs. ._.

[smileyeagle1021]

I fear tornadoes because I *do* understand them

On the flip side of that, I don't fear earthquakes, because I do understand them. I know a lot of people who know nothing about earthquakes who freak out at the very thought of them. When the reality is there is two types of earthquakes, minor ones that you may not even feel and major ones where there is little you (personally) can do that will protect you anyway... given those are the two possible outcomes, what good does it do to waste time and energy fearing them?