Birther ordered to pay for crazy lawsuits

[gremcint]

Ah yes the deflect and change the topic art of internet arguing.

Look cut the crap you've been asked a direct question all you have to is answer, you've got your stage.

Anybody else reminded of this thread with Tanasi
http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6949

[Panacea]

I believe the requirement is "U.S. citizen by birth", not "born in the U.S."

Actually, the requirement is to be a "natural born citizen," and that phrasing is what has everyone worked up because there is quibbling about what that actually means.

Birthers focus on the birth certificate because they assert that you have to be born in one of the 50 states to be a "natural born" US Citizen. They won't answer the question about what if you're born in the Territories.

Unfortunately, this flies in the face of US law on the subject. Citizenship is automatically conferred at birth if: you are the child of US Citizens OR born in the United States or US Territories (this is why Puerto Ricans can freely move about the US).

In this case Obama is a citizen either way: his mother is a US citizen AND he was born in Hawaii.

I rather resent the notion that "birthers" are against Obama because of his skin color. to me that's right up there with the attitude that "if you don't support obama you're a racist"

Personally I also think he lied through his teeth. I'm not spending my time digging it up though because I think even if we had documentable proof that he lied, people would just ignore it anyway.

I don't think you are a racist for not believing Obama is a US citizen. I do think that many birthers are racists, based on the in person comments that those people have made to me about "that nigger in the White House."

But if you are going to claim someone lied through his teeth, you need to be prepared to back it up with evidence. You can't make a bold claim like that and not back it up.

Correct me if Im wrong, but his mother was a US citizen. So it doesn't really matter where he was born.

Im not an expert, but if Im reading this correctly he is a citizen by default.

You are indeed reading this correctly.

More then a few people could argue that if you voted for Obama..you only did it because he was black..making you a racist.

You could make that point, and be right in the cases of some individuals. I've heard similar things said by black folks I know down here. But I would not want to paint all blacks with that brush any more than I would PepperElf: just because some people were racist in either voting for or against, doesn't mean everyone who voted one way or the other voted with race in mind.

I do agree that not all birthers are racist, I am just suspicious as to why they can't seem to accept any evidence.

Race could indeed be a factor, but it's really hard to know how many birthers are really acting from racist beliefs.

I find it just as likely that they were so horrified by a Democrat with associations with socialists and communists getting into the White House that they had to do anything possible to keep him from getting into office. They didn't want to lose the "good times" of the Bush years, and remembered the constant attacks on Clinton, so they just acted out of reflex I think.

again, when it's the only answer you accept ... no other answer will matter.

Based on your own statements, this applies more to you than it does to anyone else here on this subject. Others have given detail and taken time to explain their positions and provide evidence and a logical train of thought for their positions. You have not done this. You said yourself that you didn't want to bother to put the effort into proving your statement that Obama "lied through is teeth" about his citizenship.

So, for you, that Obama is lying about his citizenship has come to be the only answer you will accept . . . no other answer will matter.

[HYHYBT]

Natural born citizen. So, no caesarians, then

[Panacea]

Natural born citizen. So, no caesarians, then

Oh, man. Almost broke the first rule

[lordlundar]

Correct me if Im wrong, but his mother was a US citizen. So it doesn't really matter where he was born.

I think this is it.

Im not an expert, but if Im reading this correctly he is a citizen by default.

You are indeed reading this correctly.

Pretty much.

The reason why the birthers are so obsessed over this is because they think they have a smoking gun to get Obama removed from office. It's total fiction, but it's their only thread and they will cling to it for dear life because they have nothing left.

You have to remember that this was a group that kept calling the long form birth certificate presented by the Hawaiian governor and verified by three different federal agencies is fake but a piece of paper that had nothing right about it that said Obama was born in Kenya was proof positive of him not being an American citizen.

[mikoyan29]

Pretty much.

The reason why the birthers are so obsessed over this is because they think they have a smoking gun to get Obama removed from office. It's total fiction, but it's their only thread and they will cling to it for dear life because they have nothing left.

You have to remember that this was a group that kept calling the long form birth certificate presented by the Hawaiian governor and verified by three different federal agencies is fake but a piece of paper that had nothing right about it that said Obama was born in Kenya was proof positive of him not being an American citizen.

Well it's kind of like the similiar arguments from that end of the political spectrum in regards to creationism. At the group of those people that believe the earth is 6 to 10,000 years old. All the fossils and what not are either ignored or were put there by Satan to throw us off. The mountains of evidence that state the earth is much much older than that don't matter.

[s_stabeler]

mikoyan, creationism and the birther conspiracies are actually on the same end of the spectrum. right-wing. ( extreme right-wing is where you find the hardline religious conservatives, as well as the die-hard republicans that the birther conspiracy nuts generally turn out to be. democrats are left-wing generally.)

[Panacea]

Well it's kind of like the similiar arguments from that end of the political spectrum in regards to creationism. At the group of those people that believe the earth is 6 to 10,000 years old. All the fossils and what not are either ignored or were put there by Satan to throw us off. The mountains of evidence that state the earth is much much older than that don't matter.

Bleh. Let's not go there.

[Nekojin]

Aside from the birth certificates, there also exist Hawaiian newspaper announcements of his birth on the day after. These, too, have been authenticated and proven to not be a hoax. By all available evidence, Obama is, and was, an American citizen and eligible to stand for the Presidency.

The only other possibility that I've seen thrown forth (by the wackier end of the conspiracy theorists) is that there are actually TWO DIFFERENT MEN involved, and the one born in Hawaii is not the one now sitting in the White House. The convoluted logic behind this one takes more effort than I'm willing to expend on it.

So, PepperElf - you've stated categorically that you believe that Obama was lying. About what? When?

[Duelist925]

Aside from the birth certificates, there also exist Hawaiian newspaper announcements of his birth on the day after. These, too, have been authenticated and proven to not be a hoax. By all available evidence, Obama is, and was, an American citizen and eligible to stand for the Presidency.

The only other possibility that I've seen thrown forth (by the wackier end of the conspiracy theorists) is that there are actually TWO DIFFERENT MEN involved, and the one born in Hawaii is not the one now sitting in the White House. The convoluted logic behind this one takes more effort than I'm willing to expend on it.

So, PepperElf - you've stated categorically that you believe that Obama was lying. About what? When?

Considering several people have asked just that, and we've been waiting several days for the answer, during which time she's posted in other threads, I doubt we'll be getting an answer.

[Nekojin]

*shrug* Never hurts to throw one more voice into the fray.