Is this why people voted for Obama?

[Slytovhand]

I recall a campaign run recently - "vote for somebody else" - referring to, don't vote for personal advantage, but for the benefit of other people.. such as those who normally don't have a voice - like our descendants.

As for how people vote - a survey was done in this neck of the woods, and it found that conservative economics does not equal conservative social values. Which was perhaps vindicated by the change of government here, as well as various other political campaigns that proved decisive in parliament (ie - various bills were altered to reflect this).

Another conspiracy theory in the making? Bush plans to assasinate Obama?

And you heard it first, right here on Fratching

[lordlundar]

IDrink, I would like to remind you that while the wealthiest people in the US do reside there, their money does not. A very small percentage of their net worth is actually in the country, and it's usually what they greedily hoard. All the rest is outside the country.

Don't believe me? Go into any store and look at the products. Apart from easily perishable food, very little says "Made in USA" any more. Call centers? Most outsourced overseas. A lot of manufacturing plants in the US have shut down because there are cheaper alternatives in other countries. Of the millions of parts in your computer, maybe 2 will be made in the US.

The big belief that tax breaks for the rich causes them to invest their money locally is a load of bull, as evidenced already. They take the extra cash and either hoard it or invest it elsewhere. The funny thing is these companies keep saying "tax us more and we leave the country." They would too because it's only a small part that's still in the country. And given the way they manipulate the numbers, it's not like they actually contributed much in the first place.

[crashhelmet]

You can't eliminate taxes completely. If you do, where does funding for education, police, military, etc come from? Privatizing will only increase the difference between the haves and the have nots. Then we get into Utopias and Anarchies.

But that's what the rich want. That's why they use the argument of "Why should someone be penalized for working hard and being successful?" To a point, I agree. However, as proven by these companies that have had to lay off scores of workers while their executives are getting multi-billion dollar bonuses and severance packages, they're not working hard. They're screwing over their employees and their customers.

Flat tax? The only way that will work is through population control, and as it's already been pointed out, it does wonders in China. Why population control? More expensive to support a family of 4 than it is of 3. Therefore, the lack of that write off hurts a larger family more than a smaller one. Don't even try the better judgement angle. We can't predict the future. If you told me that the cost of a loaf of bread would go up 80 cents in less than a year and stay there for a year and a half before dropping 60 cents, I probably would've called you a liar. No one knows what our economy will do or what kind of effect greed will have on it.

The ONLY business that supports an economy and the people is a small business. They are immediately affected by the customers they have. Yes, big businesses can, but they choose not to in the name of greed. They usually wipe out small businesses in the process as well.

Microsoft, for example and as already pointed out, makes billions of dollars a year in revenue. Most of their positions are outsourced to other countries to reduce costs and yet they still overcharge their customers for software that cost pennies to make in comparison.

I was a Clinton supporter, but NAFTA screwed us over, IMO. Opened too many doors.

We are unfortunately subject to the rules of supply and demand. As much as I don't think a government should tell a company how to run it's business, it's for reasons like Microsoft, Exxon-Mobil, and all of these banks that I think they need to be watching closer.

CH

[powerboy]

We could go with no taxes at all.

How about we just pay sales tax. Since everyone has to buy things. The only taxes that should be paid is Sales Tax. We would have more money in the long run, and in turn, we would be buying more things.

[Evandril]

The big thing people don't tend to realize...People do NOT get to be rich by *spending* money, they get rich by *saving* money...IE, taking it out of the system that depends on it. The richest people in the country live here because we have the highest standard of living, not because they are 'supporting' us...Nor do the taxes they pay reflect what they've made.

As far as the government not 'giving' you anything...I take it you don't drive, or use the roads at all? How about parks and the like? Oh, and there's the little thing about police, fire departments, military...Yeah, those are all optional. Oh! I know! The fire department can give esitmates for how much it'll cost for them to come put out your house, and if you don't have it...Well, I guess you shouldn't have had a fire, now should you have?

Btw, my Mom came from East Germany, and her family was minor royalty as well...So I've gotten to hear a few 'fun' stories about nazi Germany and the soviet's takeover of the East...So that arguement doesn't hold alot of weight with me. I've also worked in the one of the richest parts of the US, and talked with quite a few *highly* rich people, and know well how 'supportive' they are of the people insuring their wealth, or the US as a whole.

[ExiledV20]

Ummm ... I have a problem with over taxing all those really rich entities. Because then where does it end? First it'll be the super dooper rich. Then it'll be the semi-rich. The so-so rich. Then it'll be anyone who makes more than minimum wage for God-knows-what-reason.

That's the "slippery slope" logical fallacy. Don't use it. It means you can't win the argument on facts. Besides, you need PROOF for that slippery slope.

It's all those rich people that inspire others to want to make it. Again, sometimes it happens & sometimes it doesn't. It's a roll of the dice. It's always been the role of the dice.

I would really disagree with that, coming from the upper class spectrum as I do. First, the only thing we inspire is materialism. Second, it's not a roll of the dice. Everyone in my family has gotten where we've gotten through connections that otherwise would not have existed without being in the class we are in the first place. If you don't have those connections? You're going to hit the glass ceiling - and HARD.

It's not like all the American rich have moved to Europe/Asia/Africa/South America/etc. They've stayed here. Because they know that's where they made their money & they're loyal to their country.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You mean loyal to their MONEY. And power. Power is the great love of everyone.

[Slytovhand]

Isn't all the money in off-shore tax havens??

BTW - Welcome Exiled. Wowl 5 posts, and 4 of them in politics... I see a trend

[ExiledV20]

Isn't all the money in off-shore tax havens??

BTW - Welcome Exiled. Wowl 5 posts, and 4 of them in politics... I see a trend

Yeah, I get mouthy. And sarcastic. Please do not take me terribly seriously!

On a real serious (and interesting!) note, putting money in off-shore tax havens is no longer really all that viable. All of the Swiss banks and most of the Cayman banks have agreements to share information with the IRS now - this makes it very hard for non-corps to dodge what they used to dodge previously.

[Slytovhand]

Sarcastic??? Better not post on here too often then!!! We hate sarcasm....









/s