Northern Colorado wants to Secede and become 51st State

[Andara Bledin]

California used to have the 7th largest economy in the world and still knew better than to try shenanigans. And it has the advantage of being on the coast, not locked in. About the only parts of the US that have a chance of becoming their own nations would be Hawaii and Alaska, and it's likely that either of those would be annexed by another stronger country within a decade.

If Northern Colorado wants to break off, they're going to have to do it within the framework as set out, or not at all. And even if the political climate would support it, the economics wouldn't. There's a reason that the money goes to the places where the people and the trade are, and that is, ultimately, what's going to keep Colorado a single state.

[smileyeagle1021]

At least the whole North Colorado thing isn't as ludicrous as Wendover Utah... for years Nevada has wanted to annex the town and incorporate it into Wendover Nevada, for years Utah has been trying to get rid of it... Congress refuses to approve it. Gotta love government efficiency.

[Panacea]

Probably helps that VA didn't fight the decision after the war anyway...

Virginia wasn't in a position to fight it. They dropped from state to conquered territory during Reconstruction.

Please, if they want to form their own state badly enough, they don't need anyone's permission to do it. The Confederate States of America already proved that.

Ah . . . if anything, the Civil War proved the converse.

Yes we did. But had the Confederacy won the fight, they would have achieved permanent separation. North Colorado can always fight for it if they want it so badly.

Given that no rebellion against the US government has EVER succeeded, that's really not a viable option.

Secession talk pops up in a lot of states from time to time: The Eastern Shore of Maryland has been talking about seceding from the rest of the state for over 200 years. Northern California would love to ditch Southern California.

It ain't gonna happen. For "Northern Colorado" to succeed, the rest of the state would have to want to get rid of them as much as they want to leave.

[Greenday]

Given that no rebellion against the US government has EVER succeeded, that's really not a viable option.

I didn't say they had good odds. Just that they could actually try if they wanted it so badly.

[Duelist925]

I didn't say they had good odds. Just that they could actually try if they wanted it so badly.

Yes, and I could try to break into a bank vault using my head if I wanted to badly enough.

The end result would be the same: Lots of unnecessary blood spilled, failure, and a splitting headache.

[Nekojin]

And, in the secession case, many lives lost for the sake of egos of politicians... and those who pull their strings.

[kaycivine]

Southern California wants to secede as well.

Some of them. They don't want to claim Los Angeles though, oddly enough.

[Nekojin]

It's not really a "Southern California" thing... it's an "Orange County" thing. There's a certain level of upper-middle-class snobbery in the OC and northern San Diego County that just doesn't want to associate with the riff-raff of the big cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco.

But even then, it doesn't make sense at all. Southern California, as a coastal desert, is highly dependent on Northern California for water (this is, incidentally, one of the reasons often given when Northern Californians talk about splitting off as a separate state - they resent having to share). Without those water connections, inland SoCal would dry up and blow away. Coastal cities like Los Angeles and San Diego might be able to manage (somehow), but Orange County would be screwed, because they rely so heavily on pumping water in from elsewhere. A detail that seems to be lost on them.

[Panacea]

But even then, it doesn't make sense at all. Southern California, as a coastal desert, is highly dependent on Northern California for water (this is, incidentally, one of the reasons often given when Northern Californians talk about splitting off as a separate state - they resent having to share). Without those water connections, inland SoCal would dry up and blow away. Coastal cities like Los Angeles and San Diego might be able to manage (somehow), but Orange County would be screwed, because they rely so heavily on pumping water in from elsewhere. A detail that seems to be lost on them.

Completely lost on them, and everyone else in SoCal. The land down there simply cannot support the massive population it holds by its own limited natural resources. If the water ever WERE to run dry, millions would simply die; they would not be able to evacuate to somewhere there is enough water fast enough. It's not simply a matter of hitting the road . . . it's getting through hundreds of miles of open desert after you hit the road that's the problem.

It'll be like Katrina in slow motion; all those poor people who literally had no way to leave and no where to go. It would make Ethiopia look like the Hilton by comparison.

[Nekojin]

Completely lost on them, and everyone else in SoCal. The land down there simply cannot support the massive population it holds by its own limited natural resources. If the water ever WERE to run dry, millions would simply die; they would not be able to evacuate to somewhere there is enough water fast enough. It's not simply a matter of hitting the road . . . it's getting through hundreds of miles of open desert after you hit the road that's the problem.

It'll be like Katrina in slow motion; all those poor people who literally had no way to leave and no where to go. It would make Ethiopia look like the Hilton by comparison.

That's more than a little hyperbolic. The water running dry wouldn't be a sudden, catastrophic event; it would be a gradual draw-down. We DO have reserves, after all (and note, I live in the Los Angeles area). To say nothing of water from outside that can literally be driven in by the tanker-truck-full. The idea that millions would die due to a crisis-level drought is purest fantasy.

This is the information age. I can have cases of water drop-shipped to my doorstep. Pay a little extra, and I can have it here TOMORROW. It's not as though we're in the Great Dustbowl era - help can come from anywhere around the country, or even around the globe, in a matter of hours. Delivering emergency water to SoCal is logistically far simpler than dealing with the aftermath of Katrina.

[smileyeagle1021]

That's more than a little hyperbolic. The water running dry wouldn't be a sudden, catastrophic event; it would be a gradual draw-down. We DO have reserves, after all .

not only that, but the technology exists to convert sea water to usable water... the only reason it isn't used is because it is cheaper to ship it from northern California... SoCal could easily last long enough to get the equipment set up and while it will result in water becoming more expensive and may lead to people having to be more humble in their landscaping, but won't lead to mass death by dehydration.

[violiav]

It's not really a "Southern California" thing... it's an "Orange County" thing. There's a certain level of upper-middle-class snobbery in the OC and northern San Diego County that just doesn't want to associate with the riff-raff of the big cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Even in San Diego there a certain amount of area snobbery. My BF grew up in Oceanside, I in El Cajon, nd we recently had a debate about whether or not O-side is actually in San Diego County. I had to show him on a map that Oceanside (and the rest of North County) were actually part of San Diego. He seemed disappointed.
Oh the eliet North County folk, I always thought they wanted to just break off.

[daleduke17]

Secession talk pops up in a lot of states from time to time: The Eastern Shore of Maryland has been talking about seceding from the rest of the state for over 200 years. Northern California would love to ditch Southern California.

It ain't gonna happen. For "Northern Colorado" to succeed, the rest of the state would have to want to get rid of them as much as they want to leave.

There's also about 85-90 counties in Illinois that want to kick the Chicago area out of Illinois and form Illinois out of everything else, and let Chicago choke on the problems they have created and have tried to get the rest of the state to shoulder either responsibility for or help fix the problem.

[crashhelmet]

There's also about 85-90 counties in Illinois that want to kick the Chicago area out of Illinois and form Illinois out of everything else, and let Chicago choke on the problems they have created and have tried to get the rest of the state to shoulder either responsibility for or help fix the problem.

Dafuq? I read this the first time and thought you meant cities, not counties. Then I looked it up. There are 102 counties in Illinois. There are rural podunk towns here in Nevada that have a larger population that several of those counties combined.

For the record, California has 58 and Florida has 67. Texas has 254.

These states need to start squashing egoes and combine counties and their resources.

[HYHYBT]

Interesting. Why was I taught in school that Georgia had more counties than any other state? (No, it wasn't before Texas was admitted to the union!)