Obama and Forced Community Service

[Xanthina]

I volunteered, elementary school through high school. Not once was my volunteering related to the school, nor was it required. I hate the idea of required service of any kind. It belittles the genuine actions of those who really want to. And it pulls away from personal freedoms.

[DrT]

Well, if you want to go that way, why the hell do we make school mandatory?
It goes against personnal freedom just as well.

I believe that school is the best thing that can happen to a person. The next best thing might just be volunteering.

[Flyndaran]

A nation that cannot survive with a totally voluntary army might not deserve to exist as a nation.
A nation that cannot prosper without a totally voluntary community service army might not deserve to survive as a nation.

What should be the punishment for those wishing to learn at school instead of work? Honestly, I would have dropped out and took the G.E.D. rather than be forced to do things not pertinent to normal school learning.
Looking at how awful my public shool experience was, that might not have been such a bad thing.

It's just wrong to volunteer someone else, no matter how noble your goals are.

[BlaqueKatt]

Honestly, I would have dropped out and took the G.E.D. rather than be forced to do things not pertinent to normal school learning.
Looking at how awful my public school experience was, that might not have been such a bad thing.

and sadly this is still seen as "the easy way out" and considering the following:

Presently, GED examinees in Wisconsin must pass five multiple choice tests (in reading, social studies, science, writing and math) with a 35 minimum score and a total score of 225. The GED Testing Service recommends that minimum score requirements be set at a level that can be passed by 70 percent of high school graduating seniors (and failed by 30 percent of seniors). Sixty-nine percent of Canadian seniors and 68 percent of Oregon's seniors passed the GED, using a passing score of 45 on each test.

people that are graduating high school can't pass it!!!!

[Flyndaran]

and sadly this is still seen as "the easy way out" and considering the following:
...
people that are graduating high school can't pass it!!!!

In the U.S. it certainly seems as if a highschool diploma is seen as a right rather than as a reward for successful learning.

[Greenday]

In the U.S. it certainly seems as if a highschool diploma is seen as a right rather than as a reward for successful learning.

I knew plenty of kids whom I graduated high school with a few years ago that graduated mainly cause the teachers didn't feel like dealing with them any extra years. The value of the high school diploma is lessening so much these days because all you have to do to get one is show up to class.

[daleduke17]

I knew plenty of kids whom I graduated high school with a few years ago that graduated mainly cause the teachers didn't feel like dealing with them any extra years. The value of the high school diploma is lessening so much these days because all you have to do to get one is show up to class.

That could also be because of all the "pwecious snowflake" bullshit going around and schools afraid of lawsuits.

[Greenday]

That could also be because of all the "pwecious snowflake" bullshit going around and schools afraid of lawsuits.

I've heard teachers flat out say to someone in front of the class, "I'm passing you so I don't have to deal with you next year."

I feel bad for the teachers though. In high school and middle school, the teachers are forced to give in to the parents. At least in college, the teachers can laugh at the parents and say "Your kid's a dumbass."

I was talking to one of my high school teachers one day and he was telling me about the BS he receives from parents. A kid didn't hand in his essay on time, but he gave the kid an extra week. The week went by and...no paper. He gave the kid ANOTHER week...no paper. He finally just gave the kid a zero and immediately, he was getting phone calls about how he should have given the kid extra time because he's a slow learner. The administration FORCED him to give the kid another TWO weeks. And it's not like it was even a long paper. Only two pages.

This is the crap we need to focus on with schooling. Sometimes, not everyone is the brightest student. Sometimes, people just shouldn't pass because they showed up. It'd be amazing if the people who passed were only the people who DESERVED it.

[AdminAssistant]

At least in college, the teachers can laugh at the parents and say "Your kid's a dumbass."

Actually, we're not supposed to have any contact with parents whatsoever - due to FERPA regulations. Yes, parents do sometime e-mail us with "Johnny had a car accident" or "Betty's grandmother died" type things, but as far as grades go, they can only be discussed in person with the student.

/nitpick

[Xanthina]

Well, if you want to go that way, why the hell do we make school mandatory?
It goes against personnal freedom just as well.

I believe that school is the best thing that can happen to a person. The next best thing might just be volunteering.

Education is different from Community service. Not every act can be measured by the same rule. I think that volunteering is a wonderful, character building thing.

Volunteer:
1. a person who voluntarily offers himself or herself for a service or undertaking.
2. a person who performs a service willingly and without pay

It the willingly giving of yourself and your time to care for others that makes volunteering such a great thing.

[Flyndaran]

Education is different from Community service. Not every act can be measured by the same rule. I think that volunteering is a wonderful, character building thing.

Volunteer:
1. a person who voluntarily offers himself or herself for a service or undertaking.
2. a person who performs a service willingly and without pay

It the willingly giving of yourself and your time to care for others that makes volunteering such a great thing.

Helping others just because is wonderful but is not something that can be forced.
It is also not something that I would allow for my hypothetical school children during school months. It's something for summer break. Too many kids today are far too stressed out to have anything compete with basic schoolwork and just being a kid.

[DrT]

My bad. Should have said community service.
Anyway, I think a minimal exposure should be enforced, if only to show kids what's out there (most of them can't define community service). If they knew it was there, and how easy it can be to get to, then maybe they'll volunteer more.
They don't want to make the effort of finding out, thus need a bit of a push (like all kids really).

On the subject of school: my mom was a math teacher in middle school till she retired, and frankly she could barely stand it at the end. The kids are bad enough, but the parents and community are the worst. Kids indeed were mistreated 40 or so years ago, and thus a lot of protection was put in place, but it went too far (as usual) and now it needs to backpedal a little.
I mean, some kids entering middle school cannot even read. Not saying 'read at grade level', I'm saying 'read'

[wanderingjoe72]

If you want an example of compulsory community service, let's look at Israel. I think compulsory military service would help shape these kids up. It would build character and skills.

Suggest that and you'll be tarred and feathered, but somehow it is ok to make school kids do something that is usually held as a punishment for juvenille offenders.

It all comes down to the question, do the ends justify the means?

[anriana]

If you want an example of compulsory community service, let's look at Israel. I think compulsory military service would help shape these kids up. It would build character and skills.

If we had cumpolsury military service would Don't Ask, Don't Tell be abolished or would queer Americans simply cease to exist?

[wanderingjoe72]

If we had cumpolsury military service would Don't Ask, Don't Tell be abolished or would queer Americans simply cease to exist?

Coming out of the Army myself, they very much exist and are just not spoken of in the service. The don't ask don't tell mentality never went away. I served with a lot of obviously gay and lesbian, but closeted individuals. It was just ignored unless someone outed themselves.

If it was compulsory, then that rule would go out the window.