Merry Christmas Rick Perry

[Racket_Man]

Texas Gov. Rick Perry sign Merry Christmas bill into law

This seems to stem from teachers and others being afraid of saying the DREADED phrase "Merry Christmas" in school. apprently there were some legal "risks" involved with saying this traditional holidays greeting/whatever.

[Greenday]

I...sadly have no problem with this. It shouldn't even be necessary these days, but I've had people flip out on me for saying "Merry Christmas" before. By adding in the part where they have to acknowledge more than one religion, the non-Christian minority in the area won't be left out.

[s_stabeler]

yeah... this is actaully a good bill. essentailly, people were suing because schools etc put on christmas celebrations. Um, WTF? There are no real restrictions on other religion's holidays (and there certianly isn't a problem with, say, a musim-dominated school putting on an Eid celebration)

The way I see it is there should be two rules for a religious celebration in schools: a) it's not mandatory to take part b) its not mandatory to watch, if it's a natvity play or similar

[Andara Bledin]

I hate to agree with Rick Perry (because he's a sociopath), but he's not wrong in this particular instance.

It's a shame that people can be so insecure (whether from persecution or crisis of faith) in their own religion or lack thereof that they have to lash out at those who choose to express their own.

[crashhelmet]

It's a shame that people can be so insecure (whether from persecution or crisis of faith) in their own religion or lack thereof that they have to lash out at those who choose to express their own.

Some people just want to be offended and/or oppressed. They want to be able to lash out for whatever reason they can make up in their heads.

[Rageaholic]

I hate to agree with Rick Perry (because he's a sociopath), but he's not wrong in this particular instance.

Tell me about it. As much as I hate the man, he is right on this issue. I just wonder if he's exaggerating the extent to which people get offended (a tactic of the religious right).

[crashhelmet]

I'm wondering if we'll see what we saw in Louisiana when they passed that law funding religious schools. "We didn't think it would be used for Muslims, ONLY Christians"

[Nekojin]

The problem is that the law is going to be used as a weapon. Schools and courthouses will have only Christian iconography - Christmas trees, Ten Commandments posted on the wall of a courthouse, and so on, because they're the "religious freedom" of the administrators and the majority. And just as subtle racism is a problem, subtle religious bias is a problem. People from other religions won't be prevented from posting their own religious iconography, but the peer pressure can make them feel uncomfortable expressing their own preferences.

[Greenday]

The problem is that the law is going to be used as a weapon. Schools and courthouses will have only Christian iconography - Christmas trees, Ten Commandments posted on the wall of a courthouse, and so on, because they're the "religious freedom" of the administrators and the majority. And just as subtle racism is a problem, subtle religious bias is a problem. People from other religions won't be prevented from posting their own religious iconography, but the peer pressure can make them feel uncomfortable expressing their own preferences.

Actually, the law specifically states you can't do that.

[Hyena Dandy]

This seems to stem from teachers and others being afraid of saying the DREADED phrase "Merry Christmas" in school. apprently there were some legal "risks" involved with saying this traditional holidays greeting/whatever.

For Merrry Christmas, I'm not sure. But I imagine their might be. At the D&D camp I'm part of is a part of the local public school system, and one thing that was made clear to me was that, while at the camp, I had to either take off the cross I usually wear, or always wear a dress shirt/polo/turtleneck so it wasn't visible.

[Andara Bledin]

Tell me about it. As much as I hate the man, he is right on this issue. I just wonder if he's exaggerating the extent to which people get offended (a tactic of the religious right).

Considering the reactions of people on this very board, I honestly don't believe there needs be any exaggeration.

Some people apparently think that Freedom of Religion must be achieved via the oppression of religious expression.

At the D&D camp I'm part of is a part of the local public school system, and one thing that was made clear to me was that, while at the camp, I had to either take off the cross I usually wear, or always wear a dress shirt/polo/turtleneck so it wasn't visible.

This! This is the oppression of expression I'm referring to. This is the behavior that the law should prevent, and rightly so.

That there are people who will use peer pressure to do the same to those of minority religions should never be an excuse to do the same to the majority religion. The solution is in another statute.

[Gravekeeper]

Not 100% sure how I feel about this one. It seems unnecessary to begin with and smacks of more of this War On Christmas(tm) bullshit.

If it was some other state maybe, but Texas? I sense there's going to be an issue with the letter vs the spirit of the law. The get out of constitutional jail free card of "as long as one other religion is included" is the main thing bothers me. As that can easily turn into "We can make public school as religious as we want, as long as we include one other religion we approve of that likes them some Jesus too."

There is also a sub clause in the bill that says they can freely display any religion they want without displaying any other religion as long as they display at least one "secular scene or symbol". There are no guidelines on equal display or any sort of guidelines for display at all.

Meaning they can decorate 99% of a public school with Jesus as long as they stuck a 2 foot "Holiday Tree" by the water cooler in the gym. And seeing as this is Texas, I have no doubt that's what will happen.

[Nekojin]

Actually, the law specifically states you can't do that.

Get back to me in ~6 months, and we'll discuss whether the law is followed reasonably and honorably, or within the thinnest literal reading of the law, as GK is suggesting.

[Rapscallion]

It's a shame that people can be so insecure (whether from persecution or crisis of faith) in their own religion or lack thereof that they have to lash out at those who choose to express their own.

I beg your pardon?

Let's see, what has religion contributed?

Strap bombs to yourself so you can blow up both yourself and others, and then be admitted to paradise.

Encouraged millions of people to 'donate' money to preachers in mega churches, whether they could afford it or not.

Fly planes full of people into the WTC.

Instruct people in AIDS-ridden regions not to use condoms, leading to sub-Saharan Africa being heading towards a wasteland.

Protect paedophile priests, moving them around to avoid secular justice.

Prosecuting and punishing girls who were raped because they were immoral, whereas the men who raped got away with it.

Try and get religious ideas from ancient books into science classes (successfully in certain areas) and get them taught as having some legitimacy, and not accepting that scientific ideas could be taught in religious education.

Behead an off-duty soldier in the middle of the day in the the middle of a town.

There's plenty more.

What do atheists do? Said something that you disagree with? Something described as 'lashing out'?

In the face of the evidence, I think saying things that make people feel sad about themselves and their conduct, and the stupidity it leads them to, is pretty mild. If you truely think about the concepts being thrust into peoples' minds, you should be outraged and ready to ban the whole concept of baseless faith back to the stone ages where it belongs.

Rapscallion

[Kheldarson]

I beg your pardon?

Let's see, what has religion contributed?

*SNIP*

Now, wait a minute, that wasn't what Andara was talking about at all. In a discussion about how we celebrate the holidays around here in the States, it is a shame that we have to have a law in place in any state saying that it's okay to celebrate any individual holiday. That's asinine. It's the whole "Happy Holidays" vs "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Hanukkah" thing in a nut shell.

Does it matter what holiday you're celebrating? No. Should you be polite about it? Yes. That's simple fucking manners. The fact that any faith, or non-faith, is getting up in arms over something that is supposed to be joyous is asinine. And shows just how insecure they are over what they believe. Which was what I took from Andara's post.

Conflating what is a ridiculous issue and is really more about just being good neighbors with the evils man has caused through religion is just wrong. Because I can come back with a list of good that religion has done throughout history too. But that's not the issue here at all. The issue here is being overly sensitive in one way or another, whether it be because you feel that your religion isn't getting enough attention or because you feel another religion is getting more attention than yours.