Detroit Just Filed For Bankruptcy!

[Aethian]

So, apparently, if the bankruptcy will affect pension benefits, it's against the MN state constitution.

Minnesota?

[Andara Bledin]

Minnesota?

Noooo.... You... er... You edited that quote!

[mikoyan29]

What's weird about the USA Today home page?

Did you mean this link, instead?

So, apparently, if the bankruptcy will affect pension benefits, it's against the MI state constitution.

It is going to be messy, that much is for sure. Like I said, this was a long time in the making and really no surprise in my neck of the woods. And to the people saying it's a Democrat mess, they may want to look up some other details on the matter....

[Panacea]

I just heard something on the radio about a judge blocking this.

Yup, a federal judge threw the case out, but it is being appealed, and a stay of her order may be issued.

Basically, the bankruptcy will result in a major hit to city employee pension benefits, which is a violation of the state constitution. The Attorney General tried to tell the judge it was too soon to know if a bankruptcy judge would do that, and the federal judge basically called him on his BS, saying, "You know he will, that's why you filed for bankruptcy."

In any other state, this would have been allowed to go forward. Michigan is the only state I know of that constitutionally protects its pensioners (and I think it's just public pensions), and the pensioners would be screwed out of a big chuck of their benefits. Not a good thing for people on fixed incomes.

[draco664]

In any other state, this would have been allowed to go forward. Michigan is the only state I know of that constitutionally protects its pensioners (and I think it's just public pensions), and the pensioners would be screwed out of a big chuck of their benefits. Not a good thing for people on fixed incomes.

This could potentially backfire in a big way. Bankruptcy court is all about restructuring your debts to help keep you from defaulting, while giving your creditors the best chance of getting as much of their money back as possible.

The city is essentially broke - it can't pay its bills. Preventing it from entering bankruptcy could well have the consequence of the pensioners loosing more than they would have.

It puts me in mind of Terry Pratchett's 'Republican Bees', that don't do anything but sit in the hive and vote for more honey.

[Jetfire]

If Detroit really was "strategically aligned" they wouldn't have this problem they have. Other businesses would have rushed to fill in when the others started failing.

Detroit is strategically aligned. It's still the busiest international border with Canada and while the Big Three are hurting, they are still around. The city's house is just so screwed up that it can't take advantage of those opportunities. Hell, it's so screwed up that Canada basically said "We need a new bridge to handle the traffic we're sending you guys, so we're just gonna build it ourselves." That bridge could have been millions in multiyear jobs for both countries, but in the end, most of it will be Canadian now because the city and state (and a certain owner of another bridge) couldn't get their act together.

The city will get through this bankruptcy one way or another; but it's probably going to be another tough decade for it. Whether they can come out of it and learn some lessons from it remains to be seen. (But is fairly doubtful to be honest)

[lordlundar]

Detroit is strategically aligned. It's still the busiest international border with Canada and while the Big Three are hurting, they are still around. The city's house is just so screwed up that it can't take advantage of those opportunities. Hell, it's so screwed up that Canada basically said "We need a new bridge to handle the traffic we're sending you guys, so we're just gonna build it ourselves." That bridge could have been millions in multiyear jobs for both countries, but in the end, most of it will be Canadian now because the city and state (and a certain owner of another bridge) couldn't get their act together.

Ahh yes, the bridge. The one that the Ontario provincial government said "we'll build it, we'll pay for it, we'll maintain it, it will be a toll bridge and half the funds from it go to the city." And the deal was REJECTED because of a smear campaign saying (without any proof I might add) that it was going to cost Detroit citizens millions of dollars. Yes, a bridge that was paid for and all the city had to do was watch the money roll in.

I see people say how tough it is to get Detroit on the road to recovery and all I can think is "hitch the horses up so they all pull in the same direction first!"

[Rageaholic]

Ahh yes, the bridge. The one that the Ontario provincial government said "we'll build it, we'll pay for it, we'll maintain it, it will be a toll bridge and half the funds from it go to the city." And the deal was REJECTED because of a smear campaign saying (without any proof I might add) that it was going to cost Detroit citizens millions of dollars. Yes, a bridge that was paid for and all the city had to do was watch the money roll in.

I see people say how tough it is to get Detroit on the road to recovery and all I can think is "hitch the horses up so they all pull in the same direction first!"

Those goddamn anti bridge people drove me nuts with their polls last year. I don't like Snyder myself, but I'm not crazy enough to turn down something good just because I don't like the guy who's for it. Some of those people were borderline conspiracy nuts.

[mikoyan29]

Ahh yes, the bridge. The one that the Ontario provincial government said "we'll build it, we'll pay for it, we'll maintain it, it will be a toll bridge and half the funds from it go to the city." And the deal was REJECTED because of a smear campaign saying (without any proof I might add) that it was going to cost Detroit citizens millions of dollars. Yes, a bridge that was paid for and all the city had to do was watch the money roll in.

I see people say how tough it is to get Detroit on the road to recovery and all I can think is "hitch the horses up so they all pull in the same direction first!"

I can venture a guess who was behind that smear campaign. And it wasn't just the city of Detroit that had an issue, it was a few folks in our illustrious legislation as well.

I'm glad the proposal went down in flames.....

[lordlundar]

I can venture a guess who was behind that smear campaign. And it wasn't just the city of Detroit that had an issue, it was a few folks in our illustrious legislation as well.

The city actually welcomed the idea. It was the owner of the other bridge who spent millions on the smear job that turned the public away from it. He has to be getting a bonus from the traffic levels on that bridge because as far as I know, his bridge isn't a a toll bridge so otherwise he would be benefiting from the new one with lower maintenance costs.

[mikoyan29]

The city actually welcomed the idea. It was the owner of the other bridge who spent millions on the smear job that turned the public away from it. He has to be getting a bonus from the traffic levels on that bridge because as far as I know, his bridge isn't a a toll bridge so otherwise he would be benefiting from the new one with lower maintenance costs.

The Ambassador Bridge is a toll bridge and it is owned by Matty Maroun (who also owns the infamous train station). He gets the tolls from that bridge and judging by its condition when I last drove over it, he doesn't do a ton of maintenance.

[Panacea]

The city is essentially broke - it can't pay its bills. Preventing it from entering bankruptcy could well have the consequence of the pensioners loosing more than they would have.

The city does have some cash, though I'm sure not enough to meet its obligations to pensioners. The problem is, pensioners are considered unsecured creditors, and no more or less important than all the other unsecured creditors (mostly people owed money or investors) who want a big piece of a very small pie.

I think the organizations representing the pensioners understand the pension obligations will never be paid in full. I think they are trying to negotiate the best deal they can, and slowing the wheels of progress gives them time to do it. I'm sure they were also hoping for a federal government bailout, though that won't happen.

The Ambassador Bridge is a toll bridge and it is owned by Matty Maroun (who also owns the infamous train station). He gets the tolls from that bridge and judging by its condition when I last drove over it, he doesn't do a ton of maintenance.

Why should he when he can keep all the tolls as profit? /sarcasm.

This is why I don't like toll roads and bridges.

[mikoyan29]

So now the US Congress is getting into the act. So I wonder how they define monies coming to a city like Detroit? Do they mean all money or money that would specifically be considered as a bailout? What about money that is already allocated to the city, would they stop that? If so, screw them. It's funny how many of these states are already states that receive more money from the Federal Government than they send in. But hey whatever....


For instance, Michigan recieves $0.85 back for every dollar it sends to the Government. And South Carolina receives $1.53 for every dollar it sends...and Senator Graham has the nerve to bitch about us?

[wolfie]

Ahh yes, the bridge. The one that the Ontario provincial government said "we'll build it, we'll pay for it, we'll maintain it, it will be a toll bridge and half the funds from it go to the city."

My understanding is that the Ontario offer was "We'll front the money, and you can pay back your share of the capital and maintenance costs out of your share of the toll revenue, then once they're paid off you can start collecting your share of the tolls". Still, it meant no out-of-pocket costs for Detroit. Also, I believe a senior level of government at the north end overruled the orchestrated "whoa" and said "Do it!".

Other crossings at Detroit have had their share of problems. The company operating the tunnel has filed for bankruptcy, and for a while the ferry's operating license was suspended because they hadn't paid the Canadian coast guard an outrageous annual fee for ice breaking (never mind the fact that, on the rare occasions that ice breaking had been needed, the U.S. did the job for a reasonable fee, and Canadian ice breakers had never come close to the ferry route).