Congressman Confronts Park Ranger

[Andara Bledin]

I think the Obama administration did it for not other reason that to piss off folks hoping they'll blame the house republicans.

Yeah. We'll just ignore that it was done because it's the law and that it is the House GOP's fault. Because that's inconvenient when you want to blame it on the one group that is the least responsible.

[Hyena Dandy]

I'll add that to the list of ridiculous Obama conspiracies. Did you come up with that yourself or did you get it from Fox? -.-

Fox has been pushing that narrative pretty hard.

[Panacea]

Not visible does not mean unmanned. Between security and maintenance crews there's a number of employees around that wouldn't be there in a shutdown scenario.

Thank you.

A lot of people just don't think about what it takes to maintain our parks and memorials. Closing them off makes it clear people should stay away, reduces litter, trash, and opportunities for vandalism. Park police will still be patrolling them, but will need less manpower with less people around.

The only thing I don't agree with about the shutdowns is the shutdown of privately owned inns on the Blue Ridge Parkway that is leased from the federal government. They still have to pay their rent, the Parkway itself is NOT closed, and no government workers work there. They should be allowed to continue normal operations.

[AccountingDrone]

Sounds about right.

It sounds roughly like the Republican line these days.....they want their cake and eat it too. They want low taxes but they also want all the nice toys for the military. They want low taxes but will bitch about the roads. They want tax reform as long as it doesn't affect the parts they like. They sound like the hippies from the sixties that would pay a percentage of their tax arguing that they were paying for the parts of the government they like.

Don't paint me with that brush, I have been a registered republican since 1979. I also pay my taxes and am disgusted by the whole thing.

I'm sure what the park rangers WANTED to say to the Congressman was, "I'm not ashamed sir, but you should be."

I would have said it. What can he do, fire me? All he could do is complain to my boss.

Well, some of the crowd yelled at him about how she was only doing her job. The moment he realized that the crowd wasn't going to rally behind him bullying her, though, he quit the field. Grandstanding coward.

Good for the crowd.

The fact that he thought he had a valid point to make is disgusting. I can't see this and the other shite the GOP are perpetrating as being their death throes, but you've got to wonder what people have to do to become unelectable in the US.

Rapscallion

Well, Teddy Kennedy committing manslaughter didn't seem to work.

[Hyena Dandy]

Don't paint me with that brush, I have been a registered republican since 1979. I also pay my taxes and am disgusted by the whole thing.

Yeah. And that's the problem. The Party Line has broken so ridiculously right that it's left the people who've been part of it for so long behind.

[Rapscallion]

The question for me has to be what there is for those who are moderate republicans?

Form a new party? Try to take the party back? Vote elsewhere? Don't vote?

I know it's a hard thing for people to vote for an ideal they supported for so long. What do republican-inclined voters see as acceptable options to what currently runs the party show?

Rapscallion

[Hyena Dandy]

The only thing I don't agree with about the shutdowns is the shutdown of privately owned inns on the Blue Ridge Parkway that is leased from the federal government. They still have to pay their rent, the Parkway itself is NOT closed, and no government workers work there. They should be allowed to continue normal operations.

Should? Yes, probably. Unfortunately, the Antideficiency Act doesn't allow that. The actual cost of operation of the inns is not the issue. The issue is that someone operating the inns is considered doing something FOR government. You're maintaining guest rooms. You're cleaning up stuff the guests leave behind. You're fixing the pipes, things you're doing for the maintenance of GOVERNMENT PROPERTY. Even government property leased to you.

The shutdown, despite closing due to a budget issue, is not occurring simply because the budget doesn't have money to pay people. The shutdown occurs because of the Anti-Deficiency Act. Under the Anti-Deficiency Act, you basically can't do... Anything, unless it's related to the protection of human life or property. My dad can't check his e-mails, because he's got a .Gov address. If you have a government-issued cell phone, you can't answer it. You can't even VOLUNTEER for government work. One of the Republican guys offered to pay out of pocket to keep the WWII memorial open. If he had actually done that, he could have been fined, or even imprisoned.

[Ginger Tea]

I did wonder why seemingly unstaffed open spaces were closed, I know that you need litter pickers for public spaces no matter the country and no one wanted to see the war memorial covered in trash as if it was being set dressed for a post apocalyptic movie.

I've not really followed this, I know scant details, mostly from this subforum, a bunch of pics about the memorial were posted as if a bunch of vets said fuck this and just moved the barriers, though this has been shown otherwise.

[Panacea]

Yeah. And that's the problem. The Party Line has broken so ridiculously right that it's left the people who've been part of it for so long behind.

Which includes me as well. I actually believe in sound fiscal policy (which is not what the GOP has pursued for the past few decades, not even Reagan). I've never been a social conservative, other than on gun issues (and I'm really middle of the road even on that). I believe in a free market (which we don't have), and am pro-business (but not a fan of corpratism).

The question for me has to be what there is for those who are moderate republicans?

Form a new party? Try to take the party back? Vote elsewhere? Don't vote?

I know it's a hard thing for people to vote for an ideal they supported for so long. What do republican-inclined voters see as acceptable options to what currently runs the party show?

There isn't a political party out there that represents my views well. I don't like the Libertarians because I'm not into paranoia and isolationism, and I believe in a sound monetary policy (they hate the Fed). I don't like the Green Party because their approach to politics is so completely unrealistic. The Democrats are OK, but so diverse and some of their views are too far to the left for my taste.

Basically, I'm registered as a Democrat right now as an act of protest against the GOP. I was a registered Republican from the day I turned 18, until the day Sarah Palin was nominated to run with McCain in 2008. As soon as I saw her, I knew that the crazy had taken over, and I've been done with the GOP ever since. Every time a GOP campaign worker knocks at my door, I'm sure to tell them why I will never vote GOP again in a national election (local might be a different story, depends on the candidate).

Fortunately, I like Obama, and I like one of my Senators (Kay Hagan). I didn't like my old Congressman (Mel Watts) because he is a do nothing, but I got redistricted for the last election because of gerrymandering and now I'm stuck with Coble (a republican) who I'm increasingly disgusted with even though he's supposedly a moderate. He's too old, he's in poor health, he should have resigned instead of running last year, and lately he's been hitting the Tea Party bandwagon when he really doesn't need to; he's been in Congress so long that he can just retire and enjoy his bennies.

Should? Yes, probably. Unfortunately, the Antideficiency Act doesn't allow that. The actual cost of operation of the inns is not the issue. The issue is that someone operating the inns is considered doing something FOR government. You're maintaining guest rooms. You're cleaning up stuff the guests leave behind. You're fixing the pipes, things you're doing for the maintenance of GOVERNMENT PROPERTY. Even government property leased to you.

I get how the Antideficiency Act works. However, I don't buy the logic when it comes to land leased from the federal government. If I rent a house, I'm expected to maintain it, and I do so out of my funds. Those innkeepers maintain the property with their money, not federal money. They have to pay rent, shutdown or no shutdown. So they should be allowed to make a living. I think the law has been misinterpreted. Either way, it should be amended to allow these guys to function in the next shutdown.

[smileyeagle1021]

Yeah. And that's the problem. The Party Line has broken so ridiculously right that it's left the people who've been part of it for so long behind.

I know several people who have switched from life long Republicans to Democrats because they feel (and probably correctly) that it is far easier to find a moderate Democrat who will follow fiscal conservative practices than to find a Republican who isn't batshit crazy.

[Andara Bledin]

Considering that, globally, the Democratic party is currently straddling the Moderate line in many matters, it's not surprising that a lot of old-school Republicans are making the change. These days, the Democrats are closer to what the Republicans used to be than the Republicans are.

And because one of the unwritten rules of being part of the GOP is solidarity, since the fringe elements speak up first, they're being allowed to write the narrative, and it's not good for the party or the nation to let that continue.

[Barracuda]

Ok, so let me get this straight...After the huge grandstanding by the Democrats when the shoe was on the other foot during the second Bush term about "compromise" and the like, (and the same talk with Clinton) the Democrats are totally fine now in refusing to even negotiate over the shutdown. Apparently when the Democrats do it, it's high minded statesmanship, but when the Republicans do, it's "terrorism" and the like. Both Reid and Obama have flat out rejected any compromise whatsoever and said they will not accept anything except flat out capitulation to their demands for the budget. No input from the GOP will be accepted, period. And that's the Republican Party's fault? God knows, I don't support the GOP wholeheartedly, for the simple reason they are too willing to cave and too willing to let the Democrats walk all over them in the media without fighting back. They have allowed corruption into their ranks. But the way Obama is acting is unprecedented. There have been 17 government shutdowns since 1976.Shutdowns list NONE of them have ever shown this level of deliberate antagonism towards the American public. Obama has:

1. Shut down private parks run entirely with private funds Park Shutdown

2. Tried to shut down STATE parks Wisconsin refuses to close state parks

3. Given orders for federal workers to, according to one Park Service employee, "make life as difficult for people as they can" Ranger quote

4. Threatened Catholic military chaplains with arrest if they minister to their troops during the shutdown Priests threatened with arrest

5. Ordered the closing off of 1,100 miles of ocean off Florida to fishing Fishing shutdown

6. Ordered not only the closing of Mt. Rushmore, but the blocking off of all scenic overlooks on roads (still open, by the way,) that can see the mountain Scenic land closure photo

7. Evicted people, including senior citizens, from their private owned homes on federal land with only 1 day's notice Lake Mead Owners Forced Out

None of this happened during previous shutdowns. So ask yourselves: Why is it happening now, THIS time? Why so many small and petty moves, especially in situations where it costs nothing (I mean, come on. Keeping the road open, but blocking the scenic overlooks off? We aren't talking rest stops or anything.) How much money is it costing to pay all the enforcement for the shutdown of all these areas (patrols, overtime, enforcement, posting guards...)

What's going to happen if the government can blackmail the American public this way when we HAVE public healthcare? (So sorry, you can't see a doctor right now, the government is closed...Emergency? Sorry, have to wait until the government is open again.) What's the real reason that all these closings are happening now, when they didn't the last 17 times government furloughed? Why are federal employees guaranteed pay for the time off they're getting? All the blame the Republicans are getting in this (well, maybe not ALL, but most of it,) is total BS and spin on the part of the Democrats. And in the end, the refusal to compromise and government temper tantrums is only going to hurt the Democrats, not help them. People are waking up to Chicago style political tactics, and they are starting to get angry.

[Andara Bledin]

Ok, so let me get this straight...After the huge grandstanding by the Democrats when the shoe was on the other foot during the second Bush term about "compromise" and the like, (and the same talk with Clinton) the Democrats are totally fine now in refusing to even negotiate over the shutdown.

Well, yeah, if you forget the four years of negotiation over the ACA.

The GOP has been taking the budget hostage repeatedly for the last 2 years, and so far, every time, Obama gave in. Well, he's not giving in to this bullshit any more. Not to override the will of the people and do an end run on the law of the land because a bunch of whiny shits can't stand the idea that they fucking lost that fight.

[Barracuda]

Funny how suddenly you care about the law of the land. Obama doesn't. Or how else do you explain his decision to delay parts of Obamacare's implementation despite the fact that the timing is in the law HE signed and he has no AUTHORITY to change it without Congress's approval? No, instead, suddenly it's important that it be delayed until after the 2014 midterm elections. I wonder why that is? Could it be that the implementing the law would end up causing a shock to his voting base that might make them reconsider their support? And "will of the people"? Don't make me laugh. Polls show Obamacare highly unpopular

[Barracuda]

Also, I must have missed the part during the last 4 years where the Democrats "negotiated" with the GOP over ACA. The Democrats used their majority at the time in Congress to steamroller it through despite Republican (and massive public) opposition.