Israel Bombing the Crap Out of Gaza

[Greenday]

Here's the latest events:

Gaza hits Israel with rockets.
Israel responds with air strikes.

People all over the world bitch about how Israel is attacking Gaza. Um, so Israel attacking is bad, but it's perfectly cool for the Palestinians in Gaza to hit Israel with rockets? It seems that no one was killed by the rockets, but regardless, is that not an attack? Everyone seems to expect Israel to sit there and take it.

Oh, and Israel isn't the only one being threatened. Egypt is being threatened by the Hamas. Egypt isn't letting anyone cross their borders, so Hamas says that Egypt is the enemies of Muslims also. Iran is giving Israel crap too about it and is voicing its support for the Palestinians in Gaza. Israel has moved more troops onto the border, but not enough to consider a large scale invasion, yet everyone is still completely badmouthing Israel as if they started it.

[AdminAssistant]

Israel has every right to protect itself from Hamas, a terrorist group. However, Palestine and Israel are going to HAVE to learn how to share the freakin' sandbox and quit killing innocent civilians. Which, the deaths of Palestinian civilians is really on the hands of Hamas who use them as human shields.

[Boozy]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, as the saying goes.

I don't always agree with that (the 9/11 hijackers are just mass murderers, plain and simple), but I think it's important to recognize that in some cases, someone the West would classify as a terrorist is considered by others as a soldier without a state. Since Palestine is not generally recognized as a state, their actions are depicted in the West as terrorism. And because many Arab countries don't recognize Israel as a state, their actions are often considered terrorism by the Arab world.

My personal opinion is that killing people is wrong, no matter what your reasons. I also understand that things are a bit more complicated than that, but it's important to maintain perspective. The whole Middle East situation boils down to "We were here first" and "They started it." Those are childish attitudes that lead to tragic consequences.

[AdminAssistant]

Boozy, you forgot "My God is better than your God"

[daleduke17]

Why is this the United States' problem? Let Isreal and Palestine bomb the hell out of each other. Pull all US troops/missions/ambassadors/whoever else out of the area and let the two wail on each other. They'll figure it out eventually.

[smileyeagle1021]

This war has been going on in one form or another for centuries now. Both sides hate each other. Hatred like that won't go away just because people half a world away complain about it. And to be honest, as long as Isreal is at least taking efforts NOT to harm civilians and Hamas is making efforts TO harm civilians I will support Isreal to the fullest... because this war will continue no matter what we westerners say, so I'll at least support the lesser evil.

[Rapscallion]

What if Israel is harming the civilians in Palestine in other ways?

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/water.html

http://desip.igc.org/TheftOfWater.html

http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/...9990818ib.html

There's plenty more like that. None are from sources that can be regarded as anything other than biased, so don't expect truly honest facts in there, but there have been far better reports (I'd have to ask the amnesty dudes at work for more information) that Israel has been stealing water and keeping the Palestinians down for many years partly by this method.

Neither side is innocent, as you say, but keep in mind that the Palestinians may be forced by circumstance to take actions that they would prefer not to take.

I'm no apologist for the Arabs or Israeli. Considering the bitter history between the sides there, I'd happily let them know that one toe over the line will mean the west nukes the whole region and then profits from selling souvenirs of slightly radioactive glass from the craters. Just so know you where I'm coming from.

However, the Israelis are, in my book, just as bad.

Rapscallion

[AFPheonix]

Hamas broke the cease fire, true, but Israel was squeezing Gaza to death by only allowing a trickle of aid through during the cease fire, compared to the normal amounts that were coming in before. Israel needs to figure out that when you create a situation where people are hungry, have high unemployment because they cannot get to their jobs, and don't have regular electricity or running water, they get a bit pissed and start firing the occasional rockets at you.
If they want Palestinians to moderate, they're gonna have to allow some moderating influences in.
Further, Hamas is not just a terrorist organization. They are the elected government. They were performing basic services and aid work far better than Fatah ever did. They are basically a two-part organization, much like Sinn Fein.

Israel didn't learn their lesson apparently in Lebanon last time. You cannot destroy fanatacism with bombs. You do it by creating something else for people to believe in and something to lose, like money and opportunity. It's when people have nothing to lose that they're the most dangerous.

Everyone in the situation has legitimate cases of being wronged, and everyone has a good amount of blood on their hands. However, Israel has been making a pretty brazen land grab since '67 and the international community needs to call them out on it. Especially us. Wishful thinking, I know.
Dale Duke, we care what happens because this conflict fuels just about every other conflict we have at the moment. While none of Palestine's neighbors really give that much of a shit about them (Well, Egypt is trying to get aid through their border crossing but for whatever reason Hamas is only allowing a few people through their side), but they and a whole bunch of terrorist groups are sure happy to use them as an excuse to bitch about us, and even use it as an excuse to attack us. This ongoing conflict was part of the reason behind 9/11, remember?

[AdminAssistant]

AFP, yes the Israelis have been making blatant land grabs - because they believe that the land they are trying to grab was granted to their people many millenia ago by Yahweh himself. Pretty powerful motivating force.

As long as Israel has nuclear weapons in their possession, then the entire world needs to pay attention. Particularly when nations like Iran would like nothing more than the the collapse of Israel. Israel is a democratic ally of the United States. Hamas is a terroist organization that happens to have a few politicians. Which of those two groups is more likely to set off a suicide bomb in a US Embassy?

Look, neither group is completely innocent, but I REFUSE to give any support to Hamas. I am sorry for the Palestinian people, and I wish that innocent civilians would not die. But Israel has a right to protect itself when an enemy breaks a cease fire and fires on them.

If Cuba decided to fire some homemade rockets on Florida, would we not open up a bit ol' American-sized can of whoop-ass on them?

[Greenday]

If Cuba decided to fire some homemade rockets on Florida, would we not open up a bit ol' American-sized can of whoop-ass on them?

Hell yea!

Why is this the United States' problem? Let Isreal and Palestine bomb the hell out of each other. Pull all US troops/missions/ambassadors/whoever else out of the area and let the two wail on each other. They'll figure it out eventually.

Lol. That's what I told my mom. Let them blow eachother to oblivian, then there is no one there left to fight. The problem countries eradicate themselves.

I think the thing that bothers me is all I see on the media (and facebook) is people supporting the Palestinians. Protests all over the world, not just one specific part of the world. It's like everyone is ignoring the fact the the Palestinians fired the first shot this time around.

How about that statement from Israel saying that they are willing to fight to the bitter end? Yea, awesome, that's REALLY going to help bring peace about.

At some point, I feel like America needs to stop backing Israel. They keep antagonizing everyone else in the Middle East and by us always backing Israel up, they all get royally pissed off at us. If America didn't back up Israel, I don't think Israel would talk so much trash, nor push everyone's limits. I also believe if America stopped backing Israel up, everyone would gang up on and kick the crap out of Israel.

[Evandril]

In my eyes, a terrorist is someone who strikes at non-military targets for gain. A freedom fighter would be someone using similar tactics, but going after targets of military value. Of course, the military tends to be aware people LIKE to strike at them, and have this silly habit of defending themselves....*shrugs*

[Slytovhand]

I'm one who supports (in theory) the Palastinians. Historically it's their land. They'd been there for thousands of years before the Jewish people found their way there, and decided (was 'chosen' for them) to stay. Only recently had Jews across the world even bothered to move there and for the most part, that's only been in the last 150 or so years...(the Wiki article on the History of Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is good!).

Why is America involved? Numerous reasons - including that Europe is the original protagonist in this - massive anti-semitic attitudes, jews being discriminated against, attacked, derided, etc, so a strong need for their own place. And, eventually, the formation of the Jewish State - all in the last century.

Before this? Relative peace! They (Muslims and Jews) haven't really been at each others' throats for century upon century. Yeah, there has been the occasional shitfight (that stands out as exception rather than rule), but otherwise, nothing. They have happily co-existed... at least, they did while the land was just land, and not a nation...

Anyway, a lot of Jews moved to the US (after being ignored in Europe) especially after WWII... so support for Israel has been almost automatic (given the wealth some Jews brought with them!).

Slowly, but surely, the Palestinians got ganked, and what remains has been camped. And because the Palestinians supported the Nazis in WWII, they've had a worse deal.

DD and GD - let them bomb each other? Well - nice if it was only the antagonists who would get killed - but we're talking about human beings.. children who know absolutely nothing about what's going on. Is that ok??

I suspect that there are factions out there that are desperately hoping that Israel will start using its nukes - to give them a valid reason to take Israel down. How would that look if suddenly Iran nuked Israel in a counter-strike?

But what shits me the most is that humanity still hasn't realised that killing themselves off through violence is utter insanity at it's worst! Especially over a meaningless term like 'ownership'.

[AFPheonix]

AFP, yes the Israelis have been making blatant land grabs - because they believe that the land they are trying to grab was granted to their people many millenia ago by Yahweh himself. Pretty powerful motivating force.

The settlers in the West Bank believe that, yes. That doesn't make it any more right than the God Hates Fags bastards. Especially when you're talking about a state that holds sway over another people group.

Look, neither group is completely innocent, but I REFUSE to give any support to Hamas. I am sorry for the Palestinian people, and I wish that innocent civilians would not die. But Israel has a right to protect itself when an enemy breaks a cease fire and fires on them.

If Cuba decided to fire some homemade rockets on Florida, would we not open up a bit ol' American-sized can of whoop-ass on them?

Hamas far from perfect, but there's a reason besides blowing up Israelis that they are popular. They run a relatively decent humanitarian wing compared to anything Fatah has ever done. Much like what was done in Ireland, support needs to be given to the good elements of Hamas, and the militant ones need to be marginalized.

I would understand if Cuba decided to start firing missiles at us if we had plonked a sizeable diaspora in their front yards and given their front yards to this people group, too. Especially if the diaspora started walling off the Cubans and cutting off supplies to them, and looking the other way when militant settlers threw rocks at the Cubans whenever they ventured outside during daylight hours.
While it's not right, I really understand why militancy is thriving there, and Israel is very much complicit in it.

[lordlundar]

Why is this the United States' problem? Let Isreal and Palestine bomb the hell out of each other. Pull all US troops/missions/ambassadors/whoever else out of the area and let the two wail on each other. They'll figure it out eventually.

While on the surface, I can understand it, this won't exactly solve the problems of conflicts, merely shift the nations. These are two groups of people, that while they lived in relative peace until recently, do still HATE each other with a passion, to the point of "either they all die or we all die". Along those lines, they know they are committing mutual genocide and have accepted it.

This leads to one result. All the people will kill each other and then there's land there without a nation laying claim to it. Guess what's going to happen then. Another group of nations, possibly some with WMDs and willing to use them at a moment's notice are going to try to take it. The domino effect of that will be staggering.

[radiocerk]

It's a lost cause really

There will never be peacNe in the Middle East. Primarily, because there has NEVER been peace in the Middle East. Look at your history. Go back to the Persians and the Babylonians: war, war and more war.

About the only way we'll ever get peace is to decide which of the factions: Palestine, Isreal, etc, we support, and kill off everyone else. And then kill of everyone who gets mad over it.

Until then, I just shrug and accept that there will always be war in the Middle East.