Weather forcasters

[Racket_Man]

Get beaten up by politicans

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014...-game#comments

Everyone is playing the blame game even though the National Weather Service did issue warnings several days ahead. YES weather tends to be local BUT ........

[Andara Bledin]

Damn. The forecasts end up being spot on, and the politicos blame the forecasters because they didn't heed the warnings.

[Bright Star]

It's WINTER!! What the hell did they expect?? Because it doesn't snow that much in the southern states doesn't mean it will never snow there. Playing the blame game isn't going to accomplish a damn thing.

[Greenday]

2.5 inches of snow and it's like the apocalypse down there. We got 8.5 inches the same day. Guess what happened? Streets plowed by noon, I was at work at 11am no problem and I have freaking rear-wheel drive.

[mikoyan29]

2.5 inches of snow and it's like the apocalypse down there. We got 8.5 inches the same day. Guess what happened? Streets plowed by noon, I was at work at 11am no problem and I have freaking rear-wheel drive.

Northern states also have the infrastructure to deal with that.

[Andara Bledin]

It wasn't the snow; it was the ice.

We were stuck at a place that had the news on for a couple of hours, and they had lots and lots of footage of cars that couldn't go anywhere because there just wasn't any traction. Snow on its own wouldn't have done that.

What's particularly baffling is that the 'deep south' gets ice storms ever so often, and while they don't get them nearly as often as the New England or plains regions, when they do, they last longer and do more damage, so ignoring the warning was particularly stupid.

[Hyena Dandy]

I was like "Weather forecasters is a topic in politics? There's no way this isn't ridiculously stupid."

...I was right.

[Greenday]

Northern states also have the infrastructure to deal with that.

They knew what was coming. They had time to prepare.

[Kheldarson]

Prepare what precisely? Since the South maybe - just maybe - gets one snow/ice storm a year, and some years the resultant precipitation is gone in hours, who's going to invest in a lot of plows? Extra salt?

So when these "big" ones hit, there's really no extra resources to prep.

[mikoyan29]

They knew what was coming. They had time to prepare.

About the only thing they could have done was tell the people to just stay home and cancelled school. It's not like the South has an abundance of salt trucks or snow plows.

My bigger beef is that Georgia's leadership is blaming other people for their lack of foresight or leadership. But that is typical these days, rather than saying, "Yeah, I made this call and screwed up" they say, "It's someone else's fault". But it's not just our political leaders...it seems like our corporate leaders like to do the same thing....except they end the "It's someone else's fault" with, "give us a bonus".

[TheHuckster]

When a region is struck hard by a storm that results in widespread power outages they often get the cherry picker trucks and other equipment from other states over to help the recovery. I wonder how logistically easy it would have been to do the same for plows and sanders. I know the organization is a bit different, since the electric companies are more monolithic while plows and sanders are more contractors and small businesses, but it might have at least helped keep the major roads clear. AFAIK there were many northern states that weren't hit by the same storm that could have spared their resources for a few days.

It would have been expensive for sure, but I get the feeling they are tapping their emergency funds as it is now.

[Jetfire]

There's probably a bit of neighbourly helping going on, but considering the short time frames involved, and the fact those types of storms usually move from the South up into the areas where that extra equipment would come from; it may not be as available.

In any case, while there's a Northern Smugfront moving south over how they handled that ice emergency; the proper thing that should have been done is obvious. To shut things down as soon as was feasible. Schools especially can afford to be shut down early even if it turns out ot be a false alarm, and as the dangerous situation escalates, increase the shutdown/road closures as needed. No extra equipment needed there, just brains to look at what the reports are saying and the balls to act on them and do what's right (and not just listening to the wallet)

[wolfie]

I wonder how logistically easy it would have been to do the same for plows and sanders. I know the organization is a bit different, since the electric companies are more monolithic while plows and sanders are more contractors and small businesses, but it might have at least helped keep the major roads clear. AFAIK there were many northern states that weren't hit by the same storm that could have spared their resources for a few days.

From Northern Ohio to Atlanta is roughly 650 miles. HOS allows 11 hours of driving time per shift, so allowing for an average speed of 60 MPH (i.e. good road conditions - you aren't going to get that in the winter) just getting there is going to take a full shift of driving. Then you need a 10 hour break before they can start plowing (could the authorities in GA arrange for hotels with parking for the plows/salt trucks? After all, those don't have sleeper cabs). Then, once they've cleared the roads, they'd need another 10 hours break, a full shift of driving, and yet another 10 hours before they could get to work back home.

GA probably can't afford to rent the plows under those circumstances (overhead of 2 days pay, 2 nights hotel/motel, and roughly $800 in diesel - per truck - before any work gets done). Northern states can't afford to have their trucks gone and needing a full day to come back if something happens back home.

What SHOULD be done is to set up "pay once" infrastructure. I'm sure the DOT has a large number of dump trucks either owned or contracted for road maintenance. Shouldn't cost too much to buy and store plows (don't even need to add a hydraulic system to power the blades - dump trucks are already equipped with hydraulics) and salt spreaders to mount on the trucks, and salt isn't perishable (keep it dry, and it doesn't matter if you go 4 or 5 years without needing it). Of course, that would involve planning on a time scale past the next election, and any forward-thinking politician who ran into a few ice-free years would be blasted for "wasting money".

[TheHuckster]

From Northern Ohio to Atlanta is roughly 650 miles. HOS allows 11 hours of driving time per shift, so allowing for an average speed of 60 MPH (i.e. good road conditions - you aren't going to get that in the winter) just getting there is going to take a full shift of driving. Then you need a 10 hour break before they can start plowing (could the authorities in GA arrange for hotels with parking for the plows/salt trucks? After all, those don't have sleeper cabs). Then, once they've cleared the roads, they'd need another 10 hours break, a full shift of driving, and yet another 10 hours before they could get to work back home.

GA probably can't afford to rent the plows under those circumstances (overhead of 2 days pay, 2 nights hotel/motel, and roughly $800 in diesel - per truck - before any work gets done). Northern states can't afford to have their trucks gone and needing a full day to come back if something happens back home.

What SHOULD be done is to set up "pay once" infrastructure. I'm sure the DOT has a large number of dump trucks either owned or contracted for road maintenance. Shouldn't cost too much to buy and store plows (don't even need to add a hydraulic system to power the blades - dump trucks are already equipped with hydraulics) and salt spreaders to mount on the trucks, and salt isn't perishable (keep it dry, and it doesn't matter if you go 4 or 5 years without needing it). Of course, that would involve planning on a time scale past the next election, and any forward-thinking politician who ran into a few ice-free years would be blasted for "wasting money".

A fair point. The plow and ice budget would still be considerably less down south than up north. The only thing to be careful of is when they build roads up north, they are consciously thinking about the effects of salt on ground water and estuaries, and add proper draining for it. I am not sure if you could say the same for the south, where improper salt could contaminate groundwater because the infrastructure simply wasn't built with that in mind. You might also notice that in the north the reflective lane dividers are recessed into the roads specifically designed for plows, whereas they are raised in the south. Even with the proper number of plows to handle a freak winter storm in the south, there are still some limitations in the infrastructure that still make it more of a challenge to remove.

Another thing to keep in mind is around here, there's a lot of plows up north not always because the state or municipality invested in them, but because individuals invested in them and run a business on the side. Afterall, if they work in a place that closes due to snow, that's the prime opportunity to spend the day off plowing and making a few extra bucks. They often have pre-arranged contracts with residents and business owners who wish to keep their driveways and parking lots clear.

The south will never have that advantage because nobody in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars to fit their truck with a plow. The state roads might be well-serviced with plows, since that's all the municipality's responsibility, but the privately owned parking lots and driveways would still remain untreated unless they made a deal with their government to provide such services.

[mikoyan29]

When a region is struck hard by a storm that results in widespread power outages they often get the cherry picker trucks and other equipment from other states over to help the recovery. I wonder how logistically easy it would have been to do the same for plows and sanders. I know the organization is a bit different, since the electric companies are more monolithic while plows and sanders are more contractors and small businesses, but it might have at least helped keep the major roads clear. AFAIK there were many northern states that weren't hit by the same storm that could have spared their resources for a few days.

We don't normally have a few days between snow storms up here.