I can't believe I'm supporting a bunch of Liberals! :D

[HYHYBT]

But to blindly vote on someone based upon their political affiliation makes about as much sense as voting for him because you like his shoes.

Up to a point, yes... but there are exceptions. I see nothing wrong with voting by party if it's something far enough down the ticket that all you really know about them is which letter is after their name. But a bigger one is that each house of Congress is run by the leadership of its majority party, and sometimes which set is in control makes a far bigger difference than what the guy from my state or district would do if allowed ever could.

An example, limited though it is by being single-issue, was Iowa a couple years ago. The only thing stopping an amendment re-banning gay marriage was that the leader of one side of the legislature wouldn't allow it to come to a vote. His party had only a one seat majority, and there was one district open in a special election. On that subject at least (and because of the increasingly strict divide between parties, probably on many others as well) the views of the individual candidates for that opening became pretty well irrelevant compared to either shifting, or not, the balance of power overall.

[Rapscallion]

Raps, assuming you're using the same definition of "fiscal conservative" that I am (not to be taken for granted - after all, "pants" and "chips" have different meanings for us), Libertarians are the ultimate fiscal conservatives. Basically, they argue that anything that's not essential for running the country (road system, military in case of foreign invasion, etc) needs to be got rid of because it's a drain on the resources of individuals (through taxes). They'd support the legalization of marijuana (or at least stop dedicating enforcement resources to clamping down on it) not because they approve of it, but because anti-pot law enforcement costs too much money without a visible benefit to society.

I'm coming from a position where looking at the US is painful right now. The politics are so dramatically polarised it hurts. From what I can tell, the GOP has been taken over by social conservatives with their 'moral' agenda rather than thinking about things in terms of economic prosperity.

There are things being mooted that are blatantly bigoted at the higher levels of politics thanks to the approval of some of the voters, and many other western countries are just shaking their heads. It's almost all down to the GOP trying to appeal to the far right vote.

If moderate fiscal conservatives really want to get their party back, it might be an idea to give the social conservatives in the GOP the chance to find out what the echo chamber of the political wilderness is really like. Do that for a term or two and the party will have to either get rid of the unappealing elements or go extinct.

I don't really like protest voting, but I can't see any other way around it.

Rapscallion

[AccountingDrone]

I'm coming from a position where looking at the US is painful right now. The politics are so dramatically polarised it hurts. From what I can tell, the GOP has been taken over by social conservatives with their 'moral' agenda rather than thinking about things in terms of economic prosperity.

The issues in the US are *complex* - because the more fundie Christians are making a play to take over the country and turn it into a fundie 'califate' [I know we are not an islamic country, I refer to the rule by a religious leader, with the entire country being forced to accept forced conversion to that specific 'church'] Add to that the financial oligarcic rule we more or less have [where them that has the finances pretty much tell the politicians what to vote for and how to behave] causing the tug of war between the 2 wannabe governments us little peons get peed upon. We do actually have people in the lowest end of government that are trying to make a difference, but they are up against incumbants and those with party backing so the going is very slow and they tend to get outshouted by those with the financial backing topay for extensive advertising campaigns.

Adding in the last 30 years or so of business and finance practices where they are getting further and further away from reality [being actually both encouraged and taught in business school] we are fast becoming a country where a modest few are lucky to have jobs and have to really toe the party line to keep their jobs, homes and minor condition of well-being, and the vast mass of 'unwashed' people living in slums and eating people kibble. Try reading Norman Spinrad's Little Heroes - it is amazingly true.

And this country is tanking so damned hard I am actually reconsidering our move to Fresno and instead diverting my money [when I get it post obit Mom] into buying a boat and living where we can just bail offshore if it gets that horrible. It will be tricky living on a boat and not being able to really *walk*, but with grab bars I can move around a boat, it will just need a boat with not many ladders. Perhaps a blue water hull houseboat.

[Rapscallion]

I think I also need to point out that the UK political experience is that whilst there are many religious state institutions, most religious folk just nod their head when told to, the atheists tend not to be overly bolshie *cough*, and it's more a background thing. You get a few street preachers here or there, but they're more a novelty in a city or town centre. Almost everyone going to church on a sunday is pretty abnormal from our perspective. As for politics, our mainstream right wing politicians are nowhere near as harsh as those in the US. When they get complacent and get nasty, they're voted out pretty sodding quickly.

It's a different world, but with so many similarities it's scary.

Rapscallion

[s_stabeler]

As for politics, our mainstream right wing politicians are nowhere near as harsh as those in the US. When they get complacent and get nasty, they're voted out pretty sodding quickly.

It's a different world, but with so many similarities it's scary.

Rapscallion

actually, it's more common than not for the truly nasty ones to get forced to resign.

[protege]

I have always made it policy to research the elections instead of voting party line. I think people who blindly vote without researching the current state of whatever the election is over are insane. Look at how Mittens changed between his gubernatorial election and the pussilanimous garbage he was spewing this time around.

The reason I do it, is that I'm all for changing the status quo downtown. I mean, we've had the same party running the city (which is a huge chunk of the county) for the better part of 80 years. To keep that dynasty going is "business as usual." Unless we can remove those assholes from office, nothing is ever going to change. We need new ideas, not the same bullshit that's been going on since the 1930s.

[HYHYBT]

You have to be careful with that, though. "We need to do something, this is something, so we need to do this" disregards the possibility of the "this" making things worse.

[Gravekeeper]

I have had now, on two recent occasions, had an American call me a "Liberal" as an insult. Much to my utter and complete bafflement. I have also been accused of being "indoctrinated" by CNN ( No other news sources exist beyond American ones apparently ). Attempts to explain that the American political world and spectrum do not exist outside of America were utterly futile.

The bubble world some of these people have created ( and had reinforced around them by the media and politicians in question ) has frankly become terrifying.

[KabeRinnaul]

I have had now, on two recent occasions, had an American call me a "Liberal" as an insult.

Kheldarson's uncle does that. He's a tea partier, and likes to use his personal interpretation of Libertarian ideas to back up his moral-conservative (read: sexist and homophobic) arguments.

Here's a choice quote: "Based on your comments and your failure to address the issue rather than calling names, I can deduce that you are a liberal. As such, I suspect that your willingness to debate rationally is highly suspect."

[Jester]

The bubble world some of these people have created ( and had reinforced around them by the media and politicians in question ) has frankly become terrifying.

Terrifying, yes. Try LIVING here with that kind of idiocy going on.

Frankly, I'm glad I'm on a (relatively) remote island, but even out here in the boonies, I have to deal with some of the blatant ignorance. And the belligerence, too.

My "favorite" was an exchange I had with a customer a couple years ago who did not seem to understand the words coming out of my mouth.

HIM: "What do you think of [some highly charged political issue that I could tell I wouldn't agree with him on]?"
ME: "I'm sorry, sir, but I don't discuss politics at work."
HIM: "Yeah, but what do you think about it?"
ME: "Again, sir, I make a point of not discussing politics at work."
HIM: "But don't you think that [opinion about said issue that he clearly held firmly]?"
ME: "Sir, I don't know how I can make this any more clear to you--I do NOT discuss politics at work."
HIM: "But wouldn't you agree--"
HIS WIFE: "Sam, can't you see that he's working, and it's not fair to try to discuss something he doesn't want to discuss since he can't leave or tell you to shut up? So can it already."

Thankfully, he listened to his wife and canned it.

[cewfa]

I think unless there is a SERIOUS shift in Republican ideology that they will cease to exist within the next 10-20 years, except as a fringe group. I think that George W will be the last Republican president we ever have. I think the more moderate Republicans, centrists, and moderate Democrats will get together and make their own party.

[Gravekeeper]

HIS WIFE: "Sam, can't you see that he's working, and it's not fair to try to discuss something he doesn't want to discuss since he can't leave or tell you to shut up? So can it already."

Wonder how many years she's been putting up with it? >.>

I've had similar scenarios happen to me at work. Which I find really baffling because you're not even talking to someone face to face, you're just randomly bringing up some volatile topic with a CSR over the phone. It tends to happen with US callers after they figure out I'm not American.

[Greenday]

I have had now, on two recent occasions, had an American call me a "Liberal" as an insult. Much to my utter and complete bafflement. I have also been accused of being "indoctrinated" by CNN ( No other news sources exist beyond American ones apparently ). Attempts to explain that the American political world and spectrum do not exist outside of America were utterly futile.

The bubble world some of these people have created ( and had reinforced around them by the media and politicians in question ) has frankly become terrifying.

In the past four years, since going to Afghanistan, I have been called all of the following at some point (in a pathetic attempt to insult):

Liberal
Conversative
Democrat
Republican
Baby Killer
Fascist
Hippy
Socialist
Un-American
etc. etc.

People are insanely stupid when it comes to political/social beliefs. They think they can sum you up based on one single opinion on one single topic. It's unbelievably pathetic.

[TheHuckster]

In the past four years, since going to Afghanistan, I have been called all of the following at some point (in a pathetic attempt to insult):

Liberal
Conversative
Democrat
Republican
Baby Killer
Fascist
Hippy
Socialist
Un-American
etc. etc.

People are insanely stupid when it comes to political/social beliefs. They think they can sum you up based on one single opinion on one single topic. It's unbelievably pathetic.

The labeling is what really fumes me up anytime I talk politics with someone. My parents, sadly, succumb to this a lot. They'll bring up a topic that I disagree with them on and they'll say something like, "You're not becoming one of those brainwashed liberals, are you?"

What's hilarious about that is they, themselves, hold some liberal ideas in certain areas. I guess it's only the liberal ideas they disagree with that makes one a brainwashed socialist. Nevermind their idea of being non-brainwashed is listening to the likes of Ann Coulter and Bill O'Reilly (and then only agreeing with half of what they say, which at least gives me some hope).

As far as I'm concerned, as soon as your argument becomes "You are X" (X being socialist, liberal, conservative, fascist, nazi, baby killer, woman hater, feminazi, etc.) you've just lost the debate, and it's time to move onto a more friendly topic of discussion.

[HYHYBT]

I'm not going to try to define your politics, but you certainly are conversative Here, at least.