Gerrymandering

[Jaden]

I was going to write a long dissertation on the subject like I normally do, but I don't feel like I need to. I'll just cut to the chase - gerrymandering sucks, everybody knows it sucks, it's blatantly corrupt and manipulative, and quite frankly it undermines the very nature of our democratic-republic.

As all of us Americans know, our mid-terms are coming up soon. I will be voting, because I believe it's my civic duty, but I really don't like my congressman and there's no chance of him being replaced this year. He's been the representative of my district for over 20 years, thanks to the magic of making it impossible to have anybody else possibly be elected in his place. It almost happened once, and they just had him switch districts, literally following me when I moved to a different part of town. It's extremely frustrating. The only two people running against him are third party candidates, one of which doesn't even have her own website, and the other of whom just graduated college and doesn't have much to say about anything. And as long as gerrymandering continues to be a thing, it'll always be this way.

*sigh* At least I like my senators. At least my senators are actually chosen by a theoretically correct sample size of people, or they would be if we (as a country, not just a state) had better voter turnout. But that's a different topic altogether.

[Gravekeeper]

I was going to write a long dissertation on the subject like I normally do, but I don't feel like I need to. I'll just cut to the chase - gerrymandering sucks, everybody knows it sucks, it's blatantly corrupt and manipulative, and quite frankly it undermines the very nature of our democratic-republic.

You can say that about several aspects of the American political system. But not enough Americans seem to know or give a shit to force any action on the matter. =/

[KabeRinnaul]

You can say that about several aspects of the American political system. But not enough Americans seem to know or give a shit to force any action on the matter. =/

The problem is we've reached a point where each side's whole purpose is to impede the other side as much as possible, and everyone is expected to root for their team. And everyone who doesn't rabidly favor one side or the other feels so marginalized that they assume the system will ignore them anyway. So one group believes the system would work if only their guys were in charge, another group believes the system would work if only their guys were in charge, and the third says the system is broken at its core thanks to the first two groups and refuses to participate.

[Greenday]

Gerrymandering, the legal way to fix elections.

[victory sabre]

This has been going since Elbridge Gerry made it popular back in the 1800's. It's not going to change. Hell, States that claim to have "non partisan" groups do the redistricting (California, Florida come to mind) even do it. The only State that it is actually close to being true is Iowa.

And, believe me, Senators, are not really any better. Hell, I've got a second rate comedian as a Senator. Hell, I think Senator Lance Prevert could do better (I hope some get the reference).

[Jaden]

This has been going since Elbridge Gerry made it popular back in the 1800's. It's not going to change. Hell, States that claim to have "non partisan" groups do the redistricting (California, Florida come to mind) even do it. The only State that it is actually close to being true is Iowa.

And, believe me, Senators, are not really any better. Hell, I've got a second rate comedian as a Senator. Hell, I think Senator Lance Prevert could do better (I hope some get the reference).

A lot of senator elections suck and a lot of senators suck, but at least they escape the blatant election fixing of gerrymandering. Also, I just happen to like both of my senators a lot.

The problem is that there's no such thing as a non-partisan group to do these things. Every single person on earth has some sort of ideology, so even if a non-partisan group doing the redistricting has the best intentions (which I highly doubt), subconsciously, at least, they'll be favoring a certain districting setup.

The only honest fixes I can think of are outsourcing it to a completely different country - and imagine the hell that would raise - assigning districts strictly by county/city/whatever, or replacing the whole system with some sort of variation of a fixed grid divided up by population.

[Gilhelmi]

I honestly believe that Gerrymandering will be one of the top 5 causes of the collapse of America (number 4 maybe).

All it has done is push candidates to the extremes of their respective parties. Any government that can not find balance is destined to fall. Only question will be when and how. (Rome did not fall in a day, it fell over the course of several hundred years, I am hoping that will be the case).

[TheHuckster]

The problem is that there's no such thing as a non-partisan group to do these things. Every single person on earth has some sort of ideology, so even if a non-partisan group doing the redistricting has the best intentions (which I highly doubt), subconsciously, at least, they'll be favoring a certain districting setup.

The idea of a non-partisan (or bi-partisan) group is theoretically, the group as a whole doesn't have any sort of bias, and one individual's own subjectivity won't undermine the group's goal of objectivity.

Of course, you have to trust the group not to collude or fight over the decisions, which is a whole other story. The big problem is you're going to be hard pressed to find a group that is politically detached enough to really care about redistricting "correctly" so the people willing to do it is going to have their own motives, and in this two party system, the districting is going to go one way or the other, and never in a truly objective manner.

I honestly believe that Gerrymandering will be one of the top 5 causes of the collapse of America (number 4 maybe).

It's another political tactic, like other tactics, which is undermining the democratic process and is giving the power to the wrong people.

[fireheart17]

The problem is we've reached a point where each side's whole purpose is to impede the other side as much as possible, and everyone is expected to root for their team. And everyone who doesn't rabidly favor one side or the other feels so marginalized that they assume the system will ignore them anyway. So one group believes the system would work if only their guys were in charge, another group believes the system would work if only their guys were in charge, and the third says the system is broken at its core thanks to the first two groups and refuses to participate.

You have pretty much summed up the australian political system as well. Last state election (in my hometown) had a result that some people didn't want (somehow the party that was in power won because they had more seats, but had less votes than the other party) and people were quick to accuse it of gerrymandering. This of course completely ignores the fact that the electoral boundaries ARE drawn by a neutral party and are in fact required to do so every few years (bear in mind that it is compulsory to register to vote and turn up to the booth on the polling day to get your paper, but you are not obliged to actually vote).

What those people actually ignored was the fact that every election without fail, publishes a 2-party preferred vote. That number is made up of EVERY person who put the candidate from the major party down above the other candidate from the major party (so for instance, if candidates A and B are from the major party and candidates C and D aren't, if someone's vote goes CDBA, their vote would count towards candidate Bs two-party preferred) even if their vote didn't actually count towards that party. This is the number that is frequently quoted as an example of the "minority winning over the majority".

[HYHYBT]

An idea... if it's unworkable to have an *impartial* group draw district boundaries, how would it be if the majority party were always excluded? If voters really do lean enough their way, they might stay in power even after a redistricting; if voters are closer to an even split, power would alternate.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Hell. Give it to a mixed group on the political spectrum but make a computer redraw the lines.

Compters optimize which is exactly why both political parties are heavy in their analytics these days. But if you make the computer optimize abstract concepts like representation (that is, evening up things politically for the most part so large portions of votes aren't wasted in areas that can't be won) and constrain by racial demographics which by law cannot be minimized through districting by law, I'm pretty sure we'll get imperfect but probably fairly even districts.