Impending Shutdown of DHS

[Gravekeeper]

To be fair, you could describe MANY government agencies this way.

Actually, you really can't. >.>

Inefficient sure, but not pissing away billions while its employees spend tax money on iPods and beer brewing kits inefficient. Never mind all the clandestine shit. Most recently they shit away millions of dollars for Teh Ebola:

The audit found, for example, that DHS has a stockpile of about 350,000 white coverall suits and 16 million surgical masks but hasn’t been been able to demonstrate how either fits into its pandemic preparedness plans.

And while the agency has a significant quantity of antiviral drugs, Roth said that “without a full understanding of the department’s needs in the event of a pandemic, we have no assurance that the quantity of drugs will be appropriate.”

The inspector general also found that drugs stored at multiple DHS sites weren’t being kept in a temperature-controlled environment. Because of this, the agency is recalling a “significant quantity” over concerns that the drugs' safety and effectiveness may have been compromised.

“Drugs and equipment have gone missing, and conversely, our audit has found drugs in the DHS inventory that the department thought been destroyed,” Roth said.

• A stock of pandemic protective equipment for use by Transportation Security Agency includes about 200,000 respirators that are beyond the five-year usability date guaranteed by the manufacturer.

• Eighty-four percent of hand sanitizer bottles stockpiled by DHS for pandemic purposes have expired — some by up to four years.

• The antiviral drugs DHS purchased are nearing the end of their effective life. While the agency is attempting to extend that shelf life of these drugs through an FDA testing program, Roth says the “results of that are not guaranteed.”

and that was just last October mind you. To date they've wasted billions and billions of dollars. Plus I'm sure millions more just since October. >.>

[Greenday]

and that was just last October mind you. To date they've wasted billions and billions of dollars. Plus I'm sure millions more just since October. >.>

I honestly am blown away by numbers like that. The budget where I work is really tight on the government side. They are extremely strict about what we can and can't spend money on. The company I work for is pretty strict too. We have our own internal auditors that are constantly checking everything. Hell, if I don't have my hours for today entered by 8am tomorrow, I'll have an angry email telling me to get it done.

Maybe it's just because I'm lucky and I'm doing research that I believe is vital to the defense of the country (and allies). I see plenty of great work getting done and while there are inefficiencies, I don't think it'd take much to right the ship.

A lot of the problems on the federal side (in general, not my office) is complacency. It's really hard to get fired from a federal position. You pretty much have to either murder someone or be a drug dealer or a spy.

[Andara Bledin]

The DHS was a hands-flail reaction to an event that is, statistically, an anomaly.

Is it any surprise that it's a massive clusterfuck?

[protege]

I believe the term for what they do is "security theater."

Yep, it's to provide the *illusion* of security.

I flew to Albany, NY, the week after 9/11. Long lines, pissed-off travelers, guard dogs, guys with rifles, all over the airport. I spent 3 hours in line, got to answer the famous "did someone place anything in your luggage without your knowledge" question, get patted down (both here, and after I got off the plane in Albany), go through multiple checkpoints in the airports. Hell, I remember not even being able to get a *plastic* knife to spread mayo on my sandwich in one of the airport's restaurants.

I get the fear after 9/11. I totally do. Remember, the 4th plane was seen circling Pittsburgh before it crashed in Somerset County. I understand the fear--there's a huge port here (2nd busiest inland port behind Chicago, IIRC)...and it could have been a target.

Even so, many of things that the DHS/TSA are doing...are nothing more than power trips. There's NO REASON for the agency to be playing "touchy-feely" at the airport. There's no reason for our government to cataloging huge numbers of communications between law-abiding citizens. Nor is there a reason for law-enforcement agencies to be compiling databases of license plate numbers.

[Greenday]

The DHS was a hands-flail reaction to an event that is, statistically, an anomaly.

Are they a statistical anomaly because they are rare or are they an anomaly because a lot of them keep getting stopped?

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Budgets are tight in government. Their books are open.

The waste in government is that no one watches the budget past a cycle. The waste is that every time a new ruling party shows up, projects with large sunk costs get shifted to the side or abandoned. You find warehouses of capital equipment because Politico X didn't like the way polito Y assigned the priorities. Or, bureaucrat Z gets power and redoes everything former boss bureaucrat A did her way.

In accounting, sunk costs are just that, sunk. But in a real company, if you constantly operate by abandoning projects that way you generally go out of business because too many of your costs aren't generating revenue. In government it works just fine because citizens cheer when they do what you elected them to.

It's an odd quirk where what the public wants is what's wasteful. They want what they want now and they'll shut down an about to be successful project to prove a point.

[wolfie]

Expired hand sanitizer? WTF? My understanding is that the active ingredient in the stuff is ethyl alcohol (minimum 60% by volume), and that's something that doesn't go bad. The only mode I can see where hand sanitizer deteriorates over time would be evaporation of the alcohol through a vapour-permeable bottle, but that would be obvious at a glance (sides of the bottle would have collapsed inward).

[s_stabeler]

Expired hand sanitizer? WTF? My understanding is that the active ingredient in the stuff is ethyl alcohol (minimum 60% by volume), and that's something that doesn't go bad. The only mode I can see where hand sanitizer deteriorates over time would be evaporation of the alcohol through a vapour-permeable bottle, but that would be obvious at a glance (sides of the bottle would have collapsed inward).

IIRC, it's more a case that the manufacturer won't guarantee they work after that long- and in a pandemic, you want to be 100% sure your precautions work.

but seriously, it ISN'T a waste that some of that stuff has gone bad ( though the improper storage IS)- you DON'T want to need to use disaster preparedness equipment. ( it's like with those AEDs that you sometimes see in case there is a heart attack nearby- ideally, they go to the end of their useful life never being necessary, but if they ever are, you'd be glad they are there.

on the other hand, it DOES mean they need to keep better track of expiry dates.

[Gravekeeper]

but seriously, it ISN'T a waste that some of that stuff has gone bad

Well, the problem was that the DHS could not demonstrate why it even needed all of these supplies to begin with or how it even intended to utilize them in the event of a pandemic. Basically, they were told to come up with a plan to handle a possible pandemic and they went "I don't know, lets just buy a shit ton of hand sanitizer and flu masks to make it look like we know what we're doing".

As was already mentioned, its just political / security theatre.

- X happens.
- Idiots with no qualifications ( congress ) tell Y to do something about it.
- Y has to do something about it to show congress.
- Y wastes money on pointless shit that doesn't help bout sounds good to unqualified morons ( congress ).
- Preferably while spending that money on supplies and contractors that benefit congress people's state or associates.
- Congress ( unqualified ) turns to the general public ( Unqualified ) and claims it did something about X.
- Rinse and repeat until you're out 20 billion in tax dollars.

Its just particularly problematic with the DHS because it was given such a wide mandate and put in charge of shit that routinely violates Constitutional rights and privacy laws. While individual dipshits within the organization use its power to oppress brown people and political opponents.

Some things DHS centers have labelled as threats to national security:
- Muslims. ( Texas )
- Mexican drug cartels being secretly trained by Hezbollah. ( Texas )
- Pro-life activists ( Wisconsin )
- Pro-choice activists ( Wisconsin )
- Environmental activists ( Pennsylvania )
- Tea Party activists ( Pennsylvania )
- Second Amendment rallies ( Pennsylvania )
- Anti-death penalty activists ( Maryland ) ( added to Federal terror database )
- Anti-war activists ( Maryland ) ( added to Federal terror database )
- Third party voters ( Missouri )
- Ron Paul supporters ( Missouri )
- The ACLU ( Tennessee )

Are they a statistical anomaly because they are rare or are they an anomaly because a lot of them keep getting stopped?

I have a magic rock I'd like to sell you. It keeps away lions. >.>

[Gravekeeper]

Oh wow, Republicans voted down their own bill. They're eating each other. They're fracturing between Republicans who still feel shame and Republicans who are batshit crazy and will ruin the country to try and prove a point. The crazies are rebelling against the rest of the party.

52 Tea Party shithawks calling themselves the "Freedom Caucus" ( seriously ). They passed a 1 week funding bill for the DHS to avoid a total implosion but the Freedom Caucus shit hawks not only won't back down from the poison pill bill but are defending their actions.

"Some folks just have a harder time facing political reality than others," said Rep. Charlie Dent, R-Pa., speaking of other Republicans.

>.>

[wolfie]

IIRC, it's more a case that the manufacturer won't guarantee they work after that long- and in a pandemic, you want to be 100% sure your precautions work.

but seriously, it ISN'T a waste that some of that stuff has gone bad

on the other hand, it DOES mean they need to keep better track of expiry dates.

Of course, PROPER planning would have involved consultations with another government department that used such supplies on a regular basis, and arranging a cost-sharing agreement to rotate stocks. Let's use the hand sanitizer as an example.

From what I've heard, hospitals use a lot of hand sanitizer. The VA has quite a number of hospitals/extended care facilities. Assume a 5 year "best before" date for hand sanitizer.

If DHS arranged with the VA, chipping in (say) 10% of the cost, to have new purchases of sanitizer shipped to DHS's warehouses with an equal quantity (still having at least a year to run on its "best before" date) shipped from the warehouses to VA facilities which would use it over the next 6 months in the normal course of operations, the VA would save 10% on their purchases of hand sanitizer while DHS would have fresh stocks for 10% of the cost that would be involved in tossing expired stuff and buying fresh.

[s_stabeler]

it's not a bad idea, but you'd need to be absolutely certain of the amount of hand sanitiser you'd need in the event of an outbreak.

but my point was never that the DHS does everything correctly. Do thye waste money? yes, although it's debateable how much they waste compared to other departments. ( currently, the Army has such an excess of tanks that they could just take a brand-new one out of storage every time one gets damaged in any way or needs maintenance, and they wouldn't run out before they'd be introducing a new tank anyway. ( and it's the ARMY saying they don't need any more tanks, by the way) Congress more-or-less said they have to keep buying more. Anywya, my point is that the core function of the DHS ( co-ordinating anti-terror efforts) is a good one- it just needs reform to concentrate on that.

as for the list, some of those are pretty bad, some they might have a point. ( 2nd amendment rallies are usually of people who don't trust the government, and are armed. Can you see where that may concern the government?)

[Greenday]

Well, currently they passed a one week temporary measure that'll keep funding going. Unbelievable that they fight over how long they can delay this instead of just getting a bill done.

[Gravekeeper]

Well, currently they passed a one week temporary measure that'll keep funding going. Unbelievable that they fight over how long they can delay this instead of just getting a bill done.

Well, if they don't keep forcing the poison pill they have to admit that maybe Obama isn't a Constitution destroying tyrant. Problem is 52 Republicans actually drank their own Koolaid while trying to sell it to the general public.

Remember, they've spent years pushing the bullshit mantra that Obama is both a total dictator in the US but also somehow a completely weak, ineffectual pussy abroad. All the while obstructing everything so they can blame the resulting mess on the administration.

The problem is they sold the Koolaid so well that enough people sincerely believed it to elect other idiots that sincerely believed it ( Tea Party Republicans ). Now you have 52 of them sitting there so self deluded they actually think Obama is a tyrant and they're standing up to Hitler 2.0 by trying to insert a repeal of his immigration reform into what should a routine funding bill.

Which if you think about it is profoundly terrifying for the future of the country. Since if Obama actually was as bad as the GOP says he would have been impeachable years ago. But he isn't, so he can't be impeached. Which means you have these Tea Party Republicans with so little understanding of how their own government functions that they think grandstanding bullshit like this is how the system is suppose to correct itself. As opposed to impeachment, the very mechanism created for the situation they claim/think exists.

The GOP's political theatre worked so well that there's a large group of idiots that don't even realize its a play despite being picked by the director for the part.

[mjr]

trying to insert a repeal of his immigration reform into what should a routine funding bill.

Didn't Democrats do similar things, and then claim Republicans were being "obstructionists" when the bills either didn't pass or Boener wouldn't put them up for a vote?

Which means you have these Tea Party Republicans with so little understanding of how their own government functions that they think grandstanding bullshit like this is how the system is suppose to correct itself.

I'd say that applies to most of Congress, though. I'd like to see an effort put forth where each member of Congress receives a copy of the Constitution of the United States, because I doubt a lot of them have read it. Heck, I doubt my local Representative has read it.

I'd also like to see one of two things put in place:

1. Each congressperson must sign a sworn affidavit before they vote stating that they believe that the bill is constitutional/unconstitutional.

2. Each sponsor of the bill must include a "preamble" of sorts stating WHY the bill is constitutional, citing article, section, etc. and supporting law. BEFORE the bill is voted on.

The biggest problem with Congress is that "power corrupts". This is part of the reason why the President is term-limited. Set term limits for Congress, and some of this will be fixed.

And in a lot of cases, I think, Congress will then go from "I'm going to do what I think will get me re-elected" to "I'm going to do what I think is the right thing to do."