Impending Shutdown of DHS

[Andara Bledin]

You do realize people dislike Obama for more reasons than he's black. And the people who dislike Obama for being black are probably the people who already said they don't like immigrants.

Thus the "etc"...

[MadMike]

You do realize people dislike Obama for more reasons than he's black.

I think most of the people who dislike him do so because he's with the "other" party, not because he's the "wrong" color. The partisan bullshit has really gotten out of hand in the last decade or so.

[Gravekeeper]

You do realize people dislike Obama for more reasons than he's black. And the people who dislike Obama for being black are probably the people who already said they don't like immigrants.

A) That was a bitter joke with a long running meme. Also note the "etc".

B) I fail to see how your point alters the root of the problem in any way. An unsettling large chunk of Republicans are basing their opinion not on the merit of the issue or what's best for the country but on whose team's captain suggested it.

C) Please cite an example where this group has a real valid issue with the Obama administration that is not a talking point they were told to repeat by the TV. From what I have seen, Democrats/Liberals ( ironically ) have far more legitimate issues with Obama than the average Republican does. Hell, I have a list of things I don't like about his policies. But I would not reject a good idea simply because of whose name is on the letterhead.

Conversely, rejecting bipartisanship has been the GOP's day 1 game plan and they now in essence can no longer control the monster they created as evident by this DHS fiasco. Partisanship in the US has seen a sharp and alarming rise. In fact the country is more politically partisan right now than at any other point in modern history.

The death slide into severe partisanship began after the invasion of Iraq with Republicans polarizing:



Republicans began to rapidly polarize while Democrats stayed stable. Then when Obama takes office ( and the obstructionist bullshit begins in congress ) the Democrats begin to polarize as well in response. Democrats have been moving slowly and consistently to the left on issues for the last 20 years. While Republicans began a rapid swing to the right on issues over the last decade beginning after the launch of the Iraq war.

Obama has the widest partisan approval gap of any president since they started keeping track of these things. More so than even G.W. Bush and this gap began on day one before he even had a chance to ruin an economy and invade two countries like Bush. Obama polls an average of 14% amongst Republicans and 81% amongst Democrats. Bush was 81 / 23 for reference.

But Bush's approval rating started in the mid 40's amongst Democrats and only tanked after the launch of the Iraq war. It likewise tanked amongst Republicans but it still sat around 60% amongst Republicans by the end of his presidency.

Obama on the other hand began with an approval rating of 23-24% amongst Republicans. Notably, Clinton also began his presidency with an approval rating around 25-26 amongst Republicans. This slowly rose into the high 30s but then tanked against after the blowjob circus. But he still ended is presidency with an approval rating in the low 30s amongst Republicans.

Conversely, Obama's approval rating with Republicans has never gone up. It started around 24. Dropped like a rock to 13-14 with the Affordable Care Act ( Something Republicans consistently support when you call it the Affordable Care Act instead of Obamacare ). And has since only continued to decline and currently sits around 9-10 amongst Republicans.

So, now, tell me. What were these real reasons that Republicans disliked Obama given that he began his presidency with the lowest approval rating amongst Republicans of any modern president and has only dropped lower. To the point where he is also the lowest polling president in modern history amongst Republicans. Even Carter never fell below 24-25% amongst Republicans and they hold him up as one of the worst presidents in history.

If we look at Obama's campaign platform, there's nothing there that is any kind of major issue for anyone except rich assholes. The only "wild" ideas Obama had was heath care reform and putting an end to shitting away money and lives in Iraq. Obama and McCain actually had some similar positions and even agreed on a number of major issues. They even held the same or similar positions on same sex marriage and abortion for fuck sakes. There's nothing in his campaign that is out of the ordinary at all for a Democratic president. So what, pray tell, was the real problem with Obama?

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

In the late 90's, impeachment precedings were initiated over whether or not a sitting President lied about sex with an intern. To rephrase, there was a questions as to whether or not a sitting president should be removed from office 'cuz he fibbed.

People can enjoy the finer points of that all they'd like. But political theatricality, antagonism, and obstruction have easily been around since 1994 during the first contract with America. The Republican party has stopped the country on a dime multiple times over impeachments, budget shutdowns, and whether or not to increase limits on the debt ceiling for debt that was already created.

The game has not changed in at least two decades.

I can't speak for the obstructionism of Democrats during the Reagan years if that was truly a thing, but the Gingrification of the Republican playbook has been consistently used for at least two decades.

It remains to be seen how long it will be successful before it stops working. The thing is, it keeps working eventhough short term it always "looks" like it's hurting the party.

[Gravekeeper]

It remains to be seen how long it will be successful before it stops working. The thing is, it keeps working eventhough short term it always "looks" like it's hurting the party.

Well, the thing is at this point its still working because of political apathy and misinformation. People expect congress to be a dysfunctional shit hole of idiots. They're use to it. They hate congress but yet that never seems to translate over to their specific congressmen ( provided he's on the same team ). Given the absurd rate of re-election they have.

[mjr]

People expect congress to be a dysfunctional shit hole of idiots.

There's a reason for that expectation...

They hate congress but yet that never seems to translate over to their specific congressmen ( provided he's on the same team ). Given the absurd rate of re-election they have.

This is true. I don't know what the approval rate currently is, but the past few years, the approval rate for Congress as a whole has been in the mid-teens, or thereabouts. Individual Congresspeople have had approval ratings in the mid 60% range, or so, on average.

I live in a pretty solidly Republican district. Last time around, I voted for an independent candidate, because I liked the ideas that candidate presented.

That, and the guy who's in office now (who I figured would win) has been there going on 30 years. That's WAY too long.

Personally, I'd like to see the whole lot of them (all 535) turned over during the next few election cycles, since the Senate elections are staggered (1/3 of the Senate up for election every two years).

[s_stabeler]

. The Republican party has stopped the country on a dime multiple times over impeachments, budget shutdowns, and whether or not to increase limits on the debt ceiling for debt that was already created.

The game has not changed in at least two decades.

not 100% true. Prior to the Tea Party crap, the shutdowns were over fiscal policy- in other words, the party blocking the bill wanted BUDGETARY concessions- for an example, the republicans have been demanding budgets not include increases in taxation for a while. While I disagree, that IS at least legitimate grounds to block a supply bill on- because it is blocking it on (ultimately) fiscal grounds, not political ones. ( Yeah, fiscal policy is somewhat political, but the point is that the blocking party had an issue with the BUDGET)

Overall, though, the issue with the Republicans is a faulty definition of compromise. The republicans seem to think that compromise means "give us what we want", when it actually means "agree something acceptable to both sides"- Oh, and an annoying case of asking for further compromise each and every time an opportunity comes up. ( by that, I mean that, for example, the first time the debt ceiling was nearly hit, the republicans asked for cuts to various programs, and refused tax cuts for the rich. The second time, they asked for further cuts ( to the same programs, IIRC) and again refused any tax rises for the rich. It makes it look kinda like they're trying to get their way by stealth- forcing cuts to programs until said programs fail)