Will someone just let Texas secede already?

[Gravekeeper]

It's an easy political calculus and not one as particularly dire as you guys are making out. It's an easy headline that doesn't lose him any votes he was never going to get anyway.

Well, the problem isn't that he really believes it. To paraphrase a former GOP lawmaker on the subject it means the governor is either stupid enough to believe the conspiracy or spineless and pandering enough to pay it lip service. Its a lose/lose either way. Never mind the waste of taxpayer money involved here to placate some fringe lunatics.

The GOP lives and dies based on gerrymandering, voter ID laws, scaring old white people and wooing moderates. They're not going to win moderates with shit like this and their main voter block will be dead in another 15-20 years tops. Their whole political future will basically be throwing childish tantrums in the house and senate.

If they lose to Hillary ( and they will at this rate ) they'll never going to have the White House again unless they can admit they're assholes on the wrong side of history and reinvent themselves. But its probably more likely that the moderate Republicans that can see the way the wind is blowing will break off from the core.

While the core will keep digging in its heels and keep acting like cartoon supervillains while wondering why no one will let them run the country. -.-

[wolfie]

said Bob Wells, a Bastrop resident, after the meeting. "They're gathering intelligence.

If they're trying to gather intelligence, they should stay out of Bastrop TX - clearly there's none to be found.

Lets not forget that the governor has ordered the State national guard to monitor the military's operation to ensure they are not there to take over Texas and turn Walmarts into detention camps for the UN. -.-

Granted that's kind of my default position on most of the south and south east of the US at this point. Just let them go. If they're that determined to create an uneducated, whites only fundamentalist theocracy where women are cattle just let them cede and be done with it.

1) The governor clearly doesn't understand the concept. If the military WERE there to take over Texas, deploying the State National Guard wouldn't do jack shit to stop it - since at the President's orders, command of the state militia "chops" to Federal control. In the situation the governor is worried about, deploying the National Guard would merely provide more troops to do the job.

2) In other words, even though 150 years ago the U.S. fought (and won) to keep the Southern states as part of the country, now's the time to rewrite history and let them leave (or possibly even kick them out)?

Hey, I'm not saying we put up surprise walls. I'm actually counting on the fact once we tell these people we're just going to build a wall between them and everyone else they'll actually embrace it.

And if we're sharp, convince them that the wall is there to "keep the left-leaning liberals out of God's country". That way, all we need to do is drop off some supplies and they'll build the wall for us.

[Andara Bledin]

1) The governor clearly doesn't understand the concept. If the military WERE there to take over Texas, deploying the State National Guard wouldn't do jack shit to stop it - since at the President's orders, command of the state militia "chops" to Federal control. In the situation the governor is worried about, deploying the National Guard would merely provide more troops to do the job.

Actually, the state National Guard is actually under state control, not federal.

They take their orders from the governor, although he can't legally order them to do something unconstitutional any more than the feds can the federal division.

[Gravekeeper]

Actually, the state National Guard is actually under state control, not federal.

^ That.

That's why I specified State National Guard in my original post. >.>

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

"The GOP lives and dies based on gerrymandering, voter ID laws, scaring old white people and wooing moderates. They're not going to win moderates with shit like this and their main voter block will be dead in another 15-20 years tops. "

Again, unless the moderates out and out defect to the Democratic party in Texas, this doesn't matter. Moderates might be most of the population but they are the minorities in both parties. Moderates cannot swing the Republicans to the left ESPECIALLY when the Democrats in Texas move left rather than attempting to hold the Moderate pole.

Yea, it's gerrymandered here but the Governor vote is popular. So unless voter turnout is so suppressed that you're saying most of the Democrats are staying home, running Candidates like Davis (that gets out both hard left and a hard right counterattack) gets you a 60/40 split AND causes the Republican primary to tack right. And keep in mind, like DiBlasio in NY Abbot has a minority wife (I'm being poltically cynical by saying this) which is giving him votes he ordinarily might not get in a group that skews Democratic. Where he's vulnerable? Tea Partiers.

The political motivaitons for why that happens aren't even that complex. Given two "wingish" candidates Texas voters will swing right. Given that, the only danger to a Republican IS the populist right.

National is a completely different issue and yea, you won't see a national Republican candidate pull this. Putting yourself in camp Bachmann or Palin is a good way to alienate establishment Republicans and Moderates so you don't generally see it unless they're trying to lose the primary. Republicans lose a general election on a national level trying stuff like this.

[Tama]

I found another of these posts today. I tried to do something very stupid myself...I tried reasoning with crazy.

They didn't listen, of course. When someone, anyone tries, all they say in return is either "you're one of them!!!" or "Wait until I'm proven right!"

[protege]

I thought you guys were going to put up a big wall so all of us evil Canadians couldn't sneak in and.... do something unspecified that seemed to worry the American government terribly.

Yep, we need a wall to keep those damn Canadians out. Canadians, with those beady little eyes, their flapping heads, and, and...

But seriously, as much as I don't like Obama, I really doubt he's going to attempt to take over Texas. I mean, the state has more firearms than the other 49 combined. No, I think someone is stirring up fear based on a normal event...for the sole purpose of getting votes come election time.

[Panacea]

I thought you guys were going to put up a big wall so all of us evil Canadians couldn't sneak in and.... do something unspecified that seemed to worry the American government terribly. Shouldn't you all be getting on with that before deciding which parts of your own country need to be separated?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/09..._n_986606.html

I would almost welcome a Canadian invasion. It would bring a semblance of sanity back to this country.

But you guys are just too damn polite to do it!

Yep, we need a wall to keep those damn Canadians out. Canadians, with those beady little eyes, their flapping heads, and, and...

But seriously, as much as I don't like Obama, I really doubt he's going to attempt to take over Texas. I mean, the state has more firearms than the other 49 combined. No, I think someone is stirring up fear based on a normal event...for the sole purpose of getting votes come election time.

Obama doesn't give a flip about Texas's guns. All the guns in Texas wouldn't stop the US military from imposing martial law if they really wanted to.

Obama just doesn't give a shit about crazy Texans and their gun nuttery, and he's not the demon he's made out to be.

[Gravekeeper]

Yea, it's gerrymandered here but the Governor vote is popular.

No its not, Texas has one of the worst voter turn outs in the entire country during its governor races. ( 28% ). It's also so badly gerrymandered in favour of the GOP that the governor not only completely acknowledges it ( in *court* no less ) but even bragged about it.

Also yes, Texas does have one of the worst voter suppression aka "Voter ID" laws in the country. A law that was ruled "purposefully discriminatory" and "unconstitutional" by district courts and was rejected by the DOJ for "placing undue burden disproportionately on minority voters". A ruling the Supreme Court overturned because the ruling came "too soon" before the next governor election. Allowing the law to stand.

So yeah, they did and are doing exactly what you mentioned >.>

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

New York beat Texas by 1%. California by 2%. Alabama beat all those beacons of Utopian democracy by 2%.

Please cry me a river about Texas voter suppression.

A popular vote is a voting mechanic, not an ideal. Of the people who vote in the Texas election, whichever side gets the most wins. The Governor's race is a popular vote.

I'm not sure what point it is you think you're making. Politics are ugly and elections tend to resemble this depending on where you live and what you believe. You don't have to like that Dems lose in Texas but why that happens or why the Governor is more worried about hardcore conservatives than he is about moderates or liberals are entirely electioneering questions.

And you know what? If you have a problem with what goes on in Texas, please enclose a check to the Democratic Party of Texas. Believe me, that helps a lot more than kvetching about what are (in reality) political games which existed 100 years before and will exist (short of world cataclysm) 100 years after we're both worm food. Those of us who have actually participated in campaigns down here honestly could use the money more than the long distance tsk'ing. One helps, the other saps voter turnout as assuredly as any Voter ID law. But hey, at least you can feel better about yourself, eh?

[Gravekeeper]

A popular vote is a voting mechanic, not an ideal. Of the people who vote in the Texas election, whichever side gets the most wins. The Governor's race is a popular vote.

Sorry, I misunderstood and thought you were referring to voter turn out. However, this doesn't excuses Texas's abhorrent voter ID laws. Which are politically and racially targeted to suppress Democratic voters.

Also no, it does not depend on where I live and what I believe. Texas has easily demonstrably problems from a political standpoint. Voter suppression, gerrymandering, the Koch Brothers, whatever it takes to keep the state red. It is not "entirely an electioneer question" at all.

Believe me, that helps a lot more than kvetching about what are (in reality) political games which existed 100 years before and will exist (short of world cataclysm) 100 years after we're both worm food.

Actually, the current state of gerrymandered fuckery is from 2003 and resulted in the GOP winning the control of the state legislature for the first time in 130 years. So don't give me this "Oh well that's just the way it is what can you do".

Other countries and even other States have addressed the problem by doing things like having districts drawn by an independent third party. If Arizona can do it, so can Texas. Anything is a step up from having the governor of Texas admit, in court, that they totally gerrymandered the state in favour of the GOP.

But hey, at least you can feel better about yourself, eh?

Don't be an ass.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Gravekeeper, that is my honest appraisal of Democrats or unaffiliated liberals who kvetch about the south. Sorry.

If you have a fundamental problem with the politics, do something about it. The Koch brothers and Donald Trump send money remotely to keep Texas red. That doesn't preclude Bill Gates and Paul Allen except they just don't bother. I don't have time for Democrats who complain about it and keep their wallets shut while whining about who got the megaphone of Texas governorship. Help us out so the next time I'm helping disburse a campaign I'm not doing it underfunded 2 to 1.

As to the rest of it, electioneering is the running of campaigns by political entities. Yes, it's an electioneering question. If you have voter suppression, the questions then become how you offset the suppression or game the system. This can take the form of a massive barrage of negative campaign advertising (shown to suppress everyone), where you choose to build your platform (who gets what pool of voters), or even where you choose to spend your money and when you run the good candidate. I've been around enough Democrat winners in red districts to know you're wrong. It's not inevitable. It's a game and it always has been. You don't like the result, you play it better. If one side doesn't want to get bloody, they can continue to lose.

Democrats are a hard bunch to wrangle. Republicans have this innate persecution complex that makes turning them out easier. Democrats represent so many different groups with so many different viewpoints that turning them out is hard. They also attack each other based on race/sex too much in every configuration imaginable. Plus they do the introspective "we can't win" song and dance better than anyone. Numbers wise? The Democrats/Moderates are always in striking distance here. In practice, we are so abandoned by the national party and would rather sink ourselves than compromise within the party. In Texas, that means knowing what message sells in your locale and adopting that since compromise based as it might be, it's BETTER than a guy like Abbott. But as WashPo even points out, when we have a sellable candidate the party manages to flub the message.

In Texas you steal the middle as a Democrat and if you don't, the state invariably tacks right. Why? The poachable voters are independents, centrist republicans, and moderate democrats that might stay home. Go hard left you lose all three. Stay in the center you pick up most of the Dems, many of the independants, and a few of the republicans who can't stand the Tea Party. Allow yourself to look like a leftist? Why waste the money on a campaign? Don't pretend it's Vermont.

Still, win enough center elections and you ARE moving the state to the Left. Rebuild the brand and the campaign coffers and yea, you can fix a lot of the issues you point out.

I don't buy the defeatism nor do I buy Voter ID as an endgame. Historically, it never has been. Like everything, it is an obstacle and one I guarantee is being mitigated in what ways it can. Hopefully it gets fixed. But if the Dem's can't replace RBG, Kennedy, and Breyer with liberals, it's only going to get worse so people plan accordingly.

[the_std]

Gravekeeper, that is my honest appraisal of Democrats or unaffiliated liberals who kvetch about the south. Sorry.

If you have a fundamental problem with the politics, do something about it. The Koch brothers and Donald Trump send money remotely to keep Texas red. That doesn't preclude Bill Gates and Paul Allen except they just don't bother. I don't have time for Democrats who complain about it and keep their wallets shut while whining about who got the megaphone of Texas governorship. Help us out so the next time I'm helping disburse a campaign I'm not doing it underfunded 2 to 1.

1) Gravekeeper is Canadian, so how is he supposed to "do something about it" besides donate money to the people he supports? Oh wait, the people he is complaining about get so much money from lobbying, "special interest groups" and their corporate sponsors that it, truly, makes very little difference.

2) The American political system has been gamed to ensure that grassroots movements have very little effect on the actual outcomes of elections and other important matters. In order to implement change on a scale that would be necessary to reverse all of the complete bullshit that the GOP has pulled to maintain their power, you would need serious connections, serious cash and the free time to put it all together. A Canadian on disability doesn't really have the ability to affect change on the scale you're talking about.

[Gravekeeper]

A Canadian on disability doesn't really have the ability to affect change on the scale you're talking about.

Thank you. I'm not sure what am suppose to do about it nor why I'm not allowed to talk about it without taking responsibility for the whole mess down there.

If you have a fundamental problem with the politics, do something about it. The Koch brothers and Donald Trump send money remotely to keep Texas red. That doesn't preclude Bill Gates and Paul Allen except they just don't bother.

Actually they do bother. Which even a cursory glance on Google would have told you. They just don't bother sending money directly into Texas's governor elections and I don't know why you would expect them to do so.

Most disgustingly rich billionaire types in the US swing Republication and are willing to use the shadiest methods possible to do so. They swing red for obvious and typically morally dubious reasons ( moar money and/or forcing their personal beliefs on others ).

There tends to be a difference between people who made their money through work/innovation and/or came from simple/difficult/poor backgrounds ( Gates, Allen, Buffet, Musk, Soros, etc ) and people who were born into it ( Koch ). The former tends to put it towards philanthropy, science, technology, etc to the betterment of mankind. The latter tends to put it towards ways to ensure it can make more of it and keep more of what it already has.

If you give Gates and Koch a billion dollars. Gates will put it into the global development of sanitation and agricultural for the world's poorest countries. Koch will spend it on a lone Republican primary candidate. People like Gates want to make the world a better place for everyone. People like Koch want to make the world a better place for themselves. Its an important difference.

When you put these moral and philosophical differences into the Money Talks ( Because its legally free speech ) US political system its pretty obvious whats going to happen. -.-

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

If you give Gates and Koch a billion dollars. Gates will put it into the global development of sanitation and agricultural for the world's poorest countries. Koch will spend it on a lone Republican primary candidate. People like Gates want to make the world a better place for everyone. People like Koch want to make the world a better place for themselves. Its an important difference.

When you put these moral and philosophical differences into the Money Talks ( Because its legally free speech ) US political system its pretty obvious whats going to happen. -.-

THIS.

Citizens United has fucked us so bad. Also the LENGTH of American campaign cycles is WAY longer than in other countries. Longer campaigns = More expensive campaigns.