Church shooting in "gun-free" Illinois

[ditchdj]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29582081/

-----I remember before Assholivich got booted out of office there he vowed to make Illinois "Gun-Free" and NEVER budge one MILLIMETER when it came to the NRA.

Too bad some people there don't obey the gun laws, especially in a state where you have to get an approved permit just to own a gun in your own home.

[AdminAssistant]

especially in a state where you have to get an approved permit just to own a gun in your own home.

What's wrong with this? A firearm, of any kind, is extremely dangerous, and I'm glad that places have application processes when it comes to gun ownership. Anyone who wants to own a gun, of any kind, should have to go through an application process, extensive background check, and a training program - PERIOD. An openly carried shotgun can kill someone just as easily as a concealed pistol. (Granted, there is more warning to others when the weapon can be seen).

That said, I think this is an extremely sad situation that someone would feel the need to kill someone in such a public (and sacred) place, and then have the cowardice to attempt to kill themselves. I'm glad he wasn't successful, hopefully the police can get some answers and send this person to prison for a very very very long time.

[ditchdj]

That said, I think this is an extremely sad situation that someone would feel the need to kill someone in such a public (and sacred) place, and then have the cowardice to attempt to kill themselves. I'm glad he wasn't successful, hopefully the police can get some answers and send this person to prison for a very very very long time.

EXACTLY!!!! It's also more sad when it's them that don't obey these laws. You know, I remember being in line at Wendy's a long time ago and hearing a cop having a conversation with someone at a table about gun control. The cop himself said that the only thing these laws do is take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. He's right.

Now, yes, I AM for the regulation of guns and other weapons. BUT, I am NOT in favor of ouright banning them under the guise of "Only police and the military should have guns" and simply relying off the government to secure my safety and security. 9/11 pretty much soured me on that entirely.

[MadMike]

I wrote an editorial about this sort of thing ages ago -- that gun laws will only affect law-abiding citizens, as criminals, by definition, don't obey gun laws, or any other laws.

What's wrong with this? A firearm, of any kind, is extremely dangerous, and I'm glad that places have application processes when it comes to gun ownership.

99% of the time, I'd say that makes sense, but what if someone is being stalked, and they got killed because they applied for a permit and were waiting the required amount of time? The stalker may already have a gun, or is going to get one thru illegal means, without going thru any application process or waiting period.

[Evandril]

Now, yes, I AM for the regulation of guns and other weapons. BUT, I am NOT in favor of ouright banning them under the guise of "Only police and the military should have guns" and simply relying off the government to secure my safety and security. 9/11 pretty much soured me on that entirely.

While I agree in general about the banning of weapons, I am curious about this statement. How did 9/11 sour you on the matter? I know aircraft, and I do *NOT* want anyone but a trained air martial or the flight crew to have weaponry on the plane.

[Amethyst Hunter]

How did 9/11 sour you on the matter? I know aircraft, and I do *NOT* want anyone but a trained air martial or the flight crew to have weaponry on the plane.

Just guessing, but I think what Ditchdj meant by that is that the government - at least, the one at the time - did fuck-all to stop 9/11. (Granted, I'm not entirely sure it *could* have been prevented, but I think they could at least have done SOMEthing being that they had all these warnings and information left to them from the Clinton administration. Bush just chose to sit on his ass with his thumb up it and let shit happen, which unfortunately it did, and then the bastard took advantage of that to settle a pissing grudge match at everyone else's expense.)

I don't fly (HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE planes! Even well before 9/11) but if I did, I wouldn't want anybody but air marshals/flight crew (properly trained of course) to have guns on a plane. Depressurization is not fun, not to mention the likelihood of worse...!

[Slytovhand]

Ummm - don't we already have a series of threads running about gun control?? Is there really a need to do another one?

Or was there different point to this thread?

As for

(and sacred) place

... to whom?

No, I meant that seriously. Just because something may be sacred to you, does not mean that something is going to be treated as sacred by someone else. And, if someone is going to be violent, they'll use any excuse - so sacred be damned..(hahaha )

[AdminAssistant]

A church is a sacred place to Christians, and I hope that even non-Christians would recognize it as such. Just as a synagogue is sacred to Jews, mosques are sacred to Muslims, etc. I'm not Jewish, but I recognize the importance of the temple. I'm not a pagan, but I'm not going to go up to somebody's home altar and start fiddling with it.

[Slytovhand]

Perhaps... but the point I was making was more that if someone is going to go shooting people, I think the 'sacredness' of a place would become irrelevant to that person.. that's all.

[ditchdj]

Anyone notice that the majority of these mass shootings tend to take place in "Gun-Free Zones" like schools, universities, churches, day care centers??? Interesting they NEVER take place at places like police stations or shooting ranges. Gee go figure......

[Rapscallion]

Ever notice how the majority of these mass shootings tend to take place in countries where the citizens have easier access to guns?

Rapscallion

[The Shadow]

Ever notice how the majority of these mass shootings tend to take place in countries where the citizens have easier access to guns?

Out of curiosity, how many mass shootings have taken place in countries like Switzerland or Finland?

[ditchdj]

Heh, a lot less than in "Gun Free Zones".

[Rapscallion]

Out of curiosity, how many mass shootings have taken place in countries like Switzerland or Finland?

I suspect far less, though I don't get news from there despite being closer. Last I heard, the US didn't get much news from outside its borders.

So, what does that thought say about the American culture?

So, just how many mas shootings have taken place over there? I'm interested.

Rapscallion

[Slytovhand]

Switzerland's culture...

I found this interesting little report...World School shootings - you will, I hope, notice the vast number of US shootings compared to the rest of the world - not just compared to any 1 other country, but the whole rest of the world!!

The basic problem with the gun laws in the US vs Finland/Switzerland (as your 2 main comparisons) is that in those 2 countries, there is mandatory armed services training - so the people there are trained properly to use such weapons - not just walk in off the street and decide to buy one.

Also - Finland's gun law regulations. Note the various requirements.... Now - do you think there is some bearing on those requirements, and the low gun crime??