Can we stop saying Ahmed Mohammed "made a clock"?

[mjr]

No, I'm not going where you think I am...

First, he didn't actually make a clock! My understanding, based on what I've read, is he simply disassembled an existing clock, and re-assembled it in a different casing. That's hardly an effort worthy of a visit to the White House and offers to MIT. I could (probably) do that.

Now, if he actually bought the breadboard and all the components (wiring, solder, digital display, etc.) and did it that way, that would be more impressive. However, based on what I have read, that's not what happened.

The kid may actually have some electronics skills. I don't know. But saying he "made" a clock is, in my opinion, an incorrect statement.

[Gravekeeper]

First, he didn't actually make a clock! My understanding, based on what I've read, is he simply disassembled an existing clock, and re-assembled it in a different casing. That's hardly an effort worthy of a visit to the White House and offers to MIT. I could (probably) do that.

The clock was just his most recent goobering around and he never claimed otherwise. He also built all sorts of shit ( cell phone chargers, remote controls, etc ) and repaired electronics for classmates. Don't disparage the kid if you're not going to bother looking into the story. I think he's gotten enough of that.

[mjr]

The clock was just his most recent goobering around and he never claimed otherwise. He also built all sorts of shit ( cell phone chargers, remote controls, etc ) and repaired electronics for classmates. Don't disparage the kid if you're not going to bother looking into the story. I think he's gotten enough of that.

I disagree. The media has labeled him a "clockmaker"...

If I buy the components to a clock, and assemble them myself...then maybe I'm a clockmaker.

That's not what this kid did, in this case.

It made have been noodling around before bedtime. But taking a clock out of one case and putting it into another is not "making a clock". Sorry, it isn't.

[Hanzoku]

Long time lurker, but I felt like redirecting this one a little...

Looking at the title, it reminded me of the way that I've seen conservative news sites handle the story, by always putting his "clock" in quotes, as a subtle little nod that they all know that he's a bomb maker in training and all it would take would be to attach a pile of explosives to his clock and he'd happily blow them up.

Either way, did he make a working model of a nuclear reactor for science fair? No. And whether or not he reinvented the wheel (or clock in this case), what he did in no way excuses the way he was treated by his school or the local authorities.

[s_stabeler]

not to mention that the (original) story was about a kid who got the cops called on him for something that was obviously not a bomb.

Also, about the visit to MIT and such, how many times does this need to be repeated: it's not about how impressive what he did was- it was supposed to encourage him to continue tinkering with things, in the hope that it would encourage him to continue- and possibly do far more difficult things. (basically, I agree that any 14-year old CAN do what that kid did. However, most DON'T. That the kid clearly had an interest in how things work is why the MIT visit- it was designed to inspire him to try to learn more about engineering. As for visiting the White House- as I said in the original thread, it's more-or-less a combination of politics (you just know the GOP would have claimed Obama didn't care if Obama didn't do something. Since there are tours of the White House anyway (literally- https://www.whitehouse.gov/participate/tours-and-events says you just have to contact your Member of Congress (probably either Senator or Representative) and a tour can be arranged) it wouldn't be difficult to get the kdi on one- and even if he did meet the President, it wouldn't be for long) it was a simple measure to prevent the GOP scoring political points off of this.) and tyring to show the kid that not everyone is a bigot ( which, unfortunately, seems to have failed- as a direct result of all of this, the kid and his parents have moved to Yemen, from what I have read. Yes, it seems that they have been driven out of the country.)

[Shangri-laschild]

At what level does it become making and not assembling?

Here's Hobby Lobby's clock making kits which is basically just screwing stuff together and could really be done without tools. Less goes into those than what he did. He didn't just make it, he took it to school to try and get a club started like at his old school. He wasn't trying to win a prize with it and the basic project does not take away from the fact that he has done stuff that is a lot more advanced than this. Towns or schools or organizations who try to discourage children from trying and learning should have a clear message sent to them so I'd be ok with the recognition he gained simply because of that side of things.

[mjr]

At what level does it become making and not assembling?

Transferring an already-functional clock from one case to another doesn't seem like "making" a clock, to me.

[Racket_Man]

Just thought of this

WHAT would have happened if the kid did a Heath Kit project (maybe a vintage project at that but still). Yes they still exist and you can still buy their stuff on eBay apparently.

Her is what a early 1070's vintage GC-1000 digital clock looked like



*MOD NOTE - Oversized image resized as a courtesy to others. Click on image to enlarge.

[Talon]

Don't disparage the kid if you're not going to bother looking into the story.

Are you really suggesting people actually do their homework before putting another person in their cross-hairs? What heresy is this?!

[mjr]

Are you really suggesting people actually do their homework before putting another person in their cross-hairs? What heresy is this?!

Here's the issue I have with this...

Yeah, the kid may be an electronics whiz kid. Let's assume he is.

If he is, as I stated earlier, I don't think removing an already functional clock from one case, and putting it into another is really much of an accomplishment. It's really something most of us could do with some basic tools and a little time on our hands (see what I did there??).

I'm not sure how it's "putting another person in the crosshairs" to point out that what he did, any one of us could have probably done.

And the quoted statement above is kind of a "pot calling the kettle black" sort of thing, if you ask me. That happens frequently on here.

[Greenday]

I think the thing that annoys a lot of us is that people are acting like we lost the next Albert Einstein. The next Nikola Tesla. And most of the people acting like that are the ones who know nothing other than the kid "made" a clock and was treated badly because his skin color happens to be brown. Most people probably don't know the minor details of him constantly tinkering and fixing stuff for people. I never would have known if it wasn't for this thread since it never showed up in the original newspaper articles.

We didn't lose some Mensa level talent. We lost a kid who was interested in electronics. The world will move on. Focus on the racism issue, not the we lost some mega-genius issue since that was never an issue.

[Gravekeeper]

If he is, as I stated earlier, I don't think removing an already functional clock from one case, and putting it into another is really much of an accomplishment. It's really something most of us could do with some basic tools and a little time on our hands (see what I did there??).

But see the problem is you're the only one making this an issue. No one ever said he pulled off an amazing feat of engineering. Not even him. You're giving us a proverbial "we/they" problem where a nebulous group is allegedly doing the thing you're complaining about.

Furthermore, your complaint is barely rising above semantics. Saying he "made" a clock is not actually factually incorrect. Assembling something is still, by definition, making it.

The root of your problem seems to be that you think a large group of people have a false impression of the amount of effort the kid put into the clock and, initially, the level of skill the kid had. As I pointed out paying any attention to the story at all would have told you the kid does have electronic skills. For the second part, the amount of effort involved, the kid never claimed otherwise. He straight up said it took him 10-20 minutes.

They only people that would have a false impression of this story are people like yourself who formed an opinion on it without actually paying attention to it. You are the proverbial "we" you're upset with. =p

I never would have known if it wasn't for this thread since it never showed up in the original newspaper articles.

Dude, literally the first time the kid appeared in the news he was using a soldering iron as a pointer to explain shit he was making in his room. Its only a "minor" detail if you straight up ignored all media regarding the story. Including the original story which literally opens with how much of a tinkerer the kid is. Both in print and on camera.

Cripes, you two.

[mjr]

But see the problem is you're the only one making this an issue.

I beg to differ. How many headlines by reporters, even in NATIONAL news outlets, refer to him as a "clock maker"? Or say that he "made a clock". That's not me, that's news media.

Furthermore, your complaint is barely rising above semantics. Saying he "made" a clock is not actually factually incorrect. Assembling something is still, by definition, making it.

Yeah...and transferring an engine from one car to another means I "made" a car. At least by your logic. See how that doesn't work?

As I pointed out paying any attention to the story at all would have told you the kid does have electronic skills. For the second part, the amount of effort involved, the kid never claimed otherwise. He straight up said it took him 10-20 minutes.

I've read several stories on this from a variety of outlets since it came out. The fact he said it took him 10-20 minutes is not in dispute. Some have not questioned his electronics skills, but his level of electronics skills.

[Greenday]

Dude, literally the first time the kid appeared in the news he was using a soldering iron as a pointer to explain shit he was making in his room. Its only a "minor" detail if you straight up ignored all media regarding the story. Including the original story which literally opens with how much of a tinkerer the kid is. Both in print and on camera.

Cripes, you two.

That was never in any of the articles that came out when the story broke out.

[Hyena Dandy]

It's really something most of us could do with some basic tools and a little time on our hands (see what I did there??).

I don't know how old you are. But I'm 25. I definitely could do that, but could I have at 14? Perhaps. But would I have had any desire to, at 14? No. What it shows is without a doubt initiative and curiosity. This wasn't, from what I've heard, a mandatory class assignment, and the teacher who it was for was apparently fairly pleased with the work. When you get down to it, that's enough for me.

And I never saw anyone, anywhere say that he, personally, was an electronics genius. What some have said is that things like this discourage people from pursuing their interests. And when you do that, you lose people who could have otherwise been great. Not that he, personally, was a genius.

I follow a lot of liberal people, and not one of them has ever said anything that implied to me that they thought he was a mechanical genius. What I have heard is, at best, this being described as saying that he did something pretty cool. And that it's good that he did something, because 'Doing something' is good. It's something not a lot of people are interested in doing.

I'll be honest, worrying about the technical skill is ridiculous. There's a lot of things that any of us could do with a bit of time and effort. At that age, it's not about encouraging the abilities as it is about encouraging the act of working with things.

As for whether it could be called making it, a discussion of what the word 'Made' means could be an interesting linguistics paper. I suspect it might have results similar to investigating the word cool - That the word might secretly have two meanings. But fretting over the fact that he didn't personally build it from scratch, is insane. Personally, I'd be fine with saying he made it, on the grounds that he substantively transformed something, even if all he did was change the case.

It's worth noting that no-one was talking about his skill, at least anyone I saw, until someone went and made a Youtube video about how the kid didn't invent it personally. The point has never been that he's a genius. The point has been that he was discouraged and profiled for his race, and discouraging kids from learning is bad. Whether they would end up as the next hero of creation or not, it's still a bad thing to punish someone for trying to learn. So the reason he got the whole hero's treatment thing, is that it was an attempt to undue the punishment. A sort of prodigal son situation.

That was never in any of the articles that came out when the story broke out.

Yeah, the articles were entirely about him being mistreated. That was all anyone knew when the story broke.