Tired of this "elitist" BS

[protege]

But yeah, on CS and other boards I frequent, I pretty much skip over posts by people who either can't make themselves clear on a regular basis or can't be bothered to type on a level more complicated than "O RLY? LOLZ". They're really just shooting themselves in the foot by not communicating effectively.

I usually do that too. I can usually get what's being said, but why should I have to translate? Just because I *can* doesn't mean I *want* to.

I've noticed, that people who speak like that, usually end up pissing off the non-English folks. For example, on the model car site I frequent, we actually have it in our TOS that you have to speak properly. That is, no ebonics, no 1337 crap...mainly because our overseas friends read it, and can't understand it! We do warn people, and after two warnings, we put them into read-only mode. It sounds cruel, but we don't want to risk alienating people who have a limited grasp of English.

What I've noticed, is that many of those folks actually speak English better than many of the people who *live* here

[AFPheonix]

I don't think it's cruel at all. They're using a written medium. They need to be able to write at least modestly well. I'm not expecting English-major quality, but at least 6th grade readability, here. Message boards are not AIM or a text message. Type the whole goddamn word out!

Something Awful bans your ass if you try to use L33T speak.

[XCashier]

I've never understood L33T myself. I mean, it takes more effort to deliberately misspell a word than it does to type the full word out! Plus, it makes you look like an idiot!

If someone is dyslexic, I can forgive them for misspelled words; that's something they can't help. But deliberately writing like a four-year-old (ie, the infamous My Immortal fanfic! ), that's when I lose patience.

[Seshat]

I've never understood L33T myself. I mean, it takes more effort to deliberately misspell a word than it does to type the full word out!

Before L337 became 'common', it was a nifty way to devise passwords. Develop your own version of punctuation or number substitution, and a name or an easily remembered word becomes a password which satisfies complexity rules, and is probably difficult to crack.

Unfortunately, making it into a type of speech has pretty much devalued it as a password creation scheme.

[the_std]

I'm actually glad to see that the majority of the posts made on CS are clear, concise and well-constructed. That's not to say they're all perfect, but the effort is clearly there.

That's the thing, isn't it? Effort? At least act like you care about the story you're telling, and that will help us care enough to read it. If you put no real effort into writing it, why should we put any effort into reading it?

[MystyGlyttyr]

I actually don't mind reading bad spelling, misplaced commas, all caps, all lowercase, whatever. I don't think it's elitist to mind it. Sometimes a little nitpicky, yes, (SOMEtimes) but not elitist. But if the story's interesting enough, I can overlook a lot.

The only thing that really bothers me is WALL O' TEXT. Not using the enter button once in a while. If I see a wall o text, I can't focus on any one line. It just all runs together. It's not that I don't want to read it or anything, it's that I can't. Even on my obituaries at work, if I get one that's wall o text (and I frequently do), I have to use my highlighters to seperate the lines.

I'm sure I misspell words here and there here, at CS.com, and probably a few other places on the Internet. But I don't use a spellchecker because I mixed up my I before E on one word in one paragraph because what I'm saying isn't that important. If it were a job interview or a college exam, then yes, I'll go over what I'm doing. If I'm just telling a funny story to a message board where I'm comfortable with the people, I don't stress over it. If one or two minor errors makes people hate and refuse to read what I write, well, that's their perogative, whatever blows your skirt up...so to speak.

To me, unless it involves employment or something else important like that, the Internet is informal. I'll write as properly as I can, just because it's how I write, and I'll skim a post before hitting sumbit to make sure I didn't leave out vital details and correct glaring errors if they leap off the page at me. But I don't have the time or the willingness to spend five minutes (and on my dial-up, it is at least five minutes) with a spell check just to be perfect.

(I'm not trying to sound harsh to people who want proper and well-spelled English, because I don't think it's that big a deal to want it...honestly, it's all good. I'm just stating that I don't hold it to the same standard. I've always been told one should write like they speak, and some people speak...funny. But as long as a person can get across what they're trying to, works for me. I'm just easy like that. *waits on minds to come out of gutters...* )

[powerboy]

Mysty, I am with you on that. I hate that dreaded wall of text. I cannot read it at all. It is even worse, when it is all in cap locks.

[Seshat]

But as long as a person can get across what they're trying to, works for me. I'm just easy like that.

That's fair enough. But by the same token, I'm not going to spend ten minutes trying to decipher a post where every second word is badly misspelled and they leave out half the information you'd need to appreciate the story anyway.

There are a few people on CS who post like that. I won't name names, because that's not fair, but I'm sure everyone can think of at least one such person.

[DesignFox]

There are a few people on CS who post like that. I won't name names, because that's not fair, but I'm sure everyone can think of at least one such person.

Yes, I can, and I don't read their posts.

If I have to seriously de-code or try to decipher something, it's not worth it to me. I read posts to de-stress or maybe get a laugh. It's not fun to me if can't understand the person's story!

[FashionLad]

If it's a casual enverionment like a web board, I'm not going to worry so much about grammar and spelling.

Believe me, my grammar and spelling are far from perfect; however, in an academic situation or professional setting, I try to make myself sound as intelligent as possible.

There are so many grammar rules that some people are just not going to dedicate their lives to it. I know doctors who don't write with correct punctiuation at all times, but at the same time are probably some of the most brilliant people in their field. An English teacher can tell me that I have a comma splice or I have a dangling modifier, a doctor can tell me that I need to have life saving surgery. I want my mechanic to know more about my transmission than incorrect usage of certain words. No one has perfect grammar.

As for me, I'm going to school for Information Technology to be a Network Administrator. I'll bet you anything that my employer will be happy as long as I'm able to keep their network running smoothly. When I send out memos, I'm sure with grammar skills that I actually do have, will be enough to get the job done.

Someone is going to go through and go, "of course he doesn't want to people to focus on grammar and punctuation, his is horrible." And that may be true. But, I'll keep your network running smoothly so your company can be profitable.

[DesignFox]

No one has perfect grammar.

I don't think that's the issue. The issue is people who disregard the basic rules of grammar and make their posts incomprehensible.

I think your employer would have a problem if he couldn't communicate with you, no matter how well you could fix his networking problems.

Trust me, as a former manager, I didn't even look at job applications that had glaring errors in spelling or grammar. If you don't care enough to follow the basic rules of written communication, how much will you care about your job? If I cannot understand your written word, how can I communicate with you regarding the needs of my company?

Obviously, when in an informal setting, the rules are extremely relaxed. I don't mind the occasional missed comma, misspelled word or run-on sentence, especially on the forums. But when someone posts a block of text, uses little to no punctuation, posts in all capitals, etc... it's just plain painful to try to decipher. I don't waste my time. If someone has something that important to say, they will put forth some effort into posting it.

[Boozy]

Trust me, as a former manager, I didn't even look at job applications that had glaring errors in spelling or grammar.

Minor grammatical errors I always overlooked, but spelling errors on a resume are absolutely unacceptable.

How can someone not be bothered to do a quick spell check? What does that say about someone's attention to detail? Or even their seriousness in finding a job?

[DesignFox]

How can someone not be bothered to do a quick spell check? What does that say about someone's attention to detail? Or even their seriousness in finding a job?

Exactly Boozy. You put it better than I did. I agree, if the grammar issue was minor, I overlooked it (like we've said, no one is perfect!). If it was something major, the application hit the circular file.

[Seshat]

As for me, I'm going to school for Information Technology to be a Network Administrator. I'll bet you anything that my employer will be happy as long as I'm able to keep their network running smoothly. When I send out memos, I'm sure with grammar skills that I actually do have, will be enough to get the job done.

Someone is going to go through and go, "of course he doesn't want to people to focus on grammar and punctuation, his is horrible." And that may be true. But, I'll keep your network running smoothly so your company can be profitable.

Based on this post: you are capable of identifying what you're trying to say, organising it so that other people will be able to understand it, laying it out coherently, and writing with enough attention to grammar and spelling that the reader is not left wondering what you're trying to say.

I've worked with programmers and sysadmins who lacked those skills. They had to be fantastic programmers and sysadmins to keep their jobs, and it held up their progress to lead programmer/senior sysadmin type roles.

Why? Because it was bloody hard to figure out what they'd done or not done, and bloody hard to integrate code with the programmers; or understand the sysadmins' site book (if they even kept one).

I don't want grammatical perfection. I just want to be able to understand what the writer is saying.

[Rapscallion]

A chum of mine is a coder. He said grammar wasn't important, so I asked him what his computer would say if his coding was a shoddy as his written text.

He got the idea after that.

Rapscallion