Tired of this "elitist" BS

[aniwahya]

And gbm85 is right. People who are cooking at McDonald's are generally people who have issues with communicating effectively.

I worked at Taco Bell for two years, earning money to help defray college expenses. What expectations of my competency in forming coherent sentences with properly used spelling and grammar do you have for me based on the above sentence?
What if I told you that I have had advanced college level scores in both reading and reading comprehension since third grade? Would I then be considered an exception to the norm, or would that line of thought then require that you consider me a liar?
*I agree tests are just tests and don't predetermine how successful or how effectively intelligent someone is, but if they can arbitrarily argue that working at McDonalds is indicates a deficiency in a persons ability to communicate, then I think it is within the bounds of fair play for me to be able to arbitrarily argue that testing scores showing a high propensity for reading and comprehension skills show an ability to communicate well, at least in written form.*

Moving on, lest I lose my ability to hold a civil dialogue.

The subject of grammar is one that can be personally frustrating for me. My brain moves faster than my fingers, and often while sharing my thoughts I move from one subject to another with a focus that makes it difficult for me to notice what I would otherwise consider to be an obvious typo or grammatical error. Almost every post I make is edited to correct mistakes I notice upon rereading them. I often blame the cadre of typo demons my friends have collected and then unleashed upon me with malicious glee.
If someone who notices a mistake I made, it won't bother me. Depending on the degree of the mistake, and whether it is impeding people from being able to understand what I wrote. Also worth considering, I have what is generally considered to be a decent sized working vocabulary. Unfortunately the growth of my vocabulary has directly impacted my spelling accuracy for the worse. Due to this, depending on how it is phrased, and whether the person makes a habit of correcting my posts, having someone lecture me about my misuse of the English language can seriously vex me. Especially when people assume I am stupid because of an occasional misspelling or grammar error.

Question directed towards those who find leet speak to be an offensive form of communication.. I sometimes use leet speak for dramatic effect. It is by no means a pervasive thing in my posts, but would the mere presence of it in any form be enough for you to ignore a post?

[the_std]

Question directed towards those who find leet speak to be an offensive. I sometimes use leet speak for dramatic effect. It is by no means a pervasive thing in my posts, but would the mere presence of it in any form be enough for you to ignore a post?

Leet speak, or lolcat speak (OMGZ!!!!111111eleventy-onez) can be very appropriate, depending on the subject.

bu7 p30p13 wh0 74lk l1k3 th1s 4ll 7h3 71m3? No thanks.

[BlaqueKatt]

I just came here to post something from an icon I saw on LJ.

"English-the language that beats other languages over the head with a lead pipe and then rifles through the pockets for spare vocabulary."

[Lace Neil Singer]

As far as I'm concerned, as long as a person has made an effort to use basic grammar and spelling to make their post readable, then I'm fine with it. I'm not about to start stabbing people over an occasional spelling mistake, or misplaced comma, or odd shortened word. For one thing, I'm a lazy typist and I use the odd shortened word myself.

However, the following sentences are unacceptable:

h1 ma n4m3 i5 ch470773 1 71k3 2 5h0p 47 h07 70p1c c0z 1 4m 73h g0f1k.

hi hw r u do u wnt 2 cht? wat do u do at skool?

I super mod a forum that has quite a few teens on it, and one thing that my fellow mods and I will not allow is leet, chatspeak, huge or badly coloured text, or all capitals. It doesn't take long to type your message so people can read it and it stops people from thinking that you're a complete idiot.

[Wicked_Lexi]

I find the fact that people use "TXT" speech in exams disturbing and sad. My grammar and spelling is not perfect but it's a lot better than most of the people I work with including managers who email me requests.

I don't even use "TXT" speech when I am SMSing because I find it harder to think it words missing letters and that leaving out punctuation annoys me. I hate getting messages like this:

"hi hws u? wat goin on 2nite wanna go sumwher an get a coffe" etc etc etc

I find that it takes me MORE time to read that^ than:

"Hi, How are you? What is going on tonight? Do you want to go somewhere and get a coffee?"

I don't see this as elitist at all but I think some people do because there are people out there who are Elitist about grammar aka the Grammar Nazi so commonly known on the internet.

I do however find "Lolcat speak" really funny and cute... weird I am

[Lace Neil Singer]

Everything in its correct place. As a caption on a funny cat picture; yes. In someone's post on a message board; no.

[Zyanya]

My standards vary depending on which board I am frequenting.

One the Customer's Suck board (and I mean no offense here), I am not the slightest bit annoyed to see some spelling and grammar errors and poor punctuation. I actually expect them, as its the kind of board where people are more likely to do 'stream of consciousness' writing while in a foul mood.

On the debate board at my college, not only do I expect to see excellent grammar, I also expect to see references automatically cited in proper format and footnotes.


It is rather like the difference between a casual conversation between friends and a formal speech given to the public.

[Hemily]

My English ain't exactly the best around, i tend to make myself understood, but i ain't gonna win a writing competition.

However, the main problem i have, wich i see clearly myself as well, is proper use of some words, like wich, it always comes up with a red line under it, but i've yet to find out why...

proper use of commas as well, i use them frequently, a bit too frequently i think, same with punctuations.

The biggest one... is the odd use of "..." and dividing up my text, i tend to end up with a huge block of text, and end sentences meant in jest with a ""

I still feel like i make myself understood though, and not seem like one of those twitchy Halo players on Xbox Live that keep screaming into the microphone like a rabid dog, about tea-bagging, killing and noobs, while foaming at the mouth.
But... that's an entirely different rant

i don't see spelling as elitism, the idiots who can't even spell one single word in their native language, calling people whom have at least some grasp of common English, Elitists, probably are the elitist.

lol, n00b u speel, u sux, ur not prt of teh kewl croud!

[the_std]

like wich, it always comes up with a red line under it, but i've yet to find out why...

There is no English word "wich", as you're spelling it. There are two closely related words, and the one you're looking for is "which". The definition of "which" is:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
–pronoun
1. what one?: Which of these do you want? Which do you want?
2. whichever: Choose which appeals to you.
3. (used relatively in restrictive and nonrestrictive clauses to represent a specified antecedent): The book, which I read last night, was exciting. The socialism which Owen preached was unpalatable to many. The lawyer represented five families, of which the Costello family was the largest.
4. (used relatively in restrictive clauses having that as the antecedent): Damaged goods constituted part of that which was sold at the auction.
5. (used after a preposition to represent a specified antecedent): the horse on which I rode.
6. (used relatively to represent a specified or implied antecedent) the one that; a particular one that: You may choose which you like.
7. (used in parenthetic clauses) the thing or fact that: He hung around for hours and, which was worse, kept me from doing my work.
8. Nonstandard. who or whom: a friend which helped me move; the lawyer which you hired.
–adjective
9. what one of (a certain number or group mentioned or implied)?: Which book do you want?
10. whichever; any that: Go which way you please, you'll end up here.
11. being previously mentioned: It stormed all day, during which time the ship broke up.

There are also "witch" as in "a woman who practices magic".

Other than that, your English is pretty good! None of the other things you mentioned are any kind of real problem. It certainly doesn't make your writing illegible.

[Boozy]

My English ain't exactly the best around, i tend to make myself understood, but i ain't gonna win a writing competition.

I wouldn't have known that English was a second language for you if you hadn't mentioned it. You're heads and tails above certain people for whom English is their native language.

[Hemily]

There is no English word "wich", as you're spelling it. There are two closely related words, and the one you're looking for is "which". The definition of "which" is:



There are also "witch" as in "a woman who practices magic".

Other than that, your English is pretty good! None of the other things you mentioned are any kind of real problem. It certainly doesn't make your writing illegible.

awesome! i've been wondering on the correct spelling on that word for a while now, which... I just need to remember it now

I wouldn't have known that English was a second language for you if you hadn't mentioned it. You're heads and tails above certain people for whom English is their native language.

it's not always that great, i have times where a word suddenly escapes me, leaving me scratching my head in confusion, i know what i want to say, but the word has just fled my brain, in search of a better place, it happens even more often when speaking it, instead of typing.

[PepperElf]

I guess I'm semi-elitist then too, because I hate some blatant mistakes.

I'll forgive the occasional slip or people who honestly say that spelling isn't their best feature. I know mine isn't always perfect and I've started sentences with the word "But" before. And I once posted a thread about bad grammer, only to have someone point out that I'd misspelled grammar. (I forgot what I wrote back but I did laugh). Also, some popular words like LOL I'll forgive because I'm just too use to them, though there is such a thing as overkill.

However ... it all depends on who I'm talking to and their attitude and what their writing for.

1) Official signs or notices. ... Mistakes on these can be costly, in both re-print costs and making the company (or whomever) look stupid.

One of the most classic blunders I've ever seen was a series of signs promoting "EDUATION OPPORTUNITIES." Yes, they misspelled "Education" on a sign promoting getting an education. What's even sadder was the fact that these were professionally printed.

2) Pulling an "attitude".
Most often seen in chat rooms, but... it's the attitude that some 1337-speakers have that making no effort whatsoever to even learn how to spell will somehow magically NOT matter when transitioning into adult life.

I'm not talking about the occasional misspelling of a word or mixup of they're, their, and there. I mean people who honestly think it's appropriate to use "ur" and "plz" at all times. Or, when they're angry about other people disliking such laziness, a rash of ironically misspelled words like "Fuk"... Actually that parts somewhat amusing, though they dislike being told that.

3) Calling someone else stupid or an idiot while using said bad grammar or spelling. Like "Your stupid!"
If I see that I often reply that "Before calling someone else stupid, it would be a good idea to learn the difference between Your and You're. It just ruins the whole 'I'm smarter than you are' effect when you don't even spell the insult properly."



As for being an Elitist... No.
Not unless your real name is George Bernard Shaw (or Henry Higgins)

[guywithashovel]

I usually use pretty good grammar, sentence structure, and spelling when I write. Sometimes I'll write something and then read it and find a glaring, embarrassing grammatical mistake or misuse of a word. At the same time, though, I rarely make a big deal when someone makes a language mistake while talking to me, or when I see a mistake in an online post. It's not that I don't care about good language skills. I actually do. Just read my posts. They may not be perfect, but they are quite well-written, even if I do say so myself. It's just not something I fuss too much about when I'm on message boards and in chat rooms.

Also, when you're reading online forums such as this one, you should be careful before you write someone off as uneducated and/or lazy because his posts are a little choppy, because the person responsible for the post may be someone who doesn't speak English as a native language. Remember, English is one of the hardest languages in the world to learn. It has more words than most other languages have, and it has more grammar rules. Plus, some of its rules are pretty esoteric. If the person is a non-native speaker who is in the process of perfecting such a language as a second (or third or fourth) language, then I don't think that person deserves to be treated like a moron. If anything, it means this person knows more than one language.

[BroomJockey]

someone who doesn't speak English as a native language.

Except I've seen more native language speakers do more on their own to butcher the language than any 5 non-native speakers. I've seen hundreds of nearly flawless posts around the net that have the line "Excuse my poor English, I'm still learning."

[Lace Neil Singer]

Agreed. I've seen loads of people who are from another country (example a girl from Germany on another board who always types her posts in perfect English) who always put in good grammar and spelling... and morons who are native English speakers who type all in leet, gangsta slang or chatspeak, and who have an attitude when it's pointed out to them that typing like that just makes people assume they're stupid and therefore negates any point they're trying to make. *head desk*