Why is there some hate for furries?

[jackfaire]

Admin, I think I see what blas is getting at. It's normal for humans to be human. But for humans to try to be animals? That's not normal.

Normal as in currently done?

Cuz humans in various cultures did dress like animals most notably Native American shamans.

[Greenday]

Normal as in currently done?

Cuz humans in various cultures did dress like animals most notably Native American shamans.

Furries and religious stuff are two separate things though. That and are the people who are furries actually Native American shamans?

[jackfaire]

Furries and religious stuff are two separate things though. That and are the people who are furries actually Native American shamans?

*shrugs* If I see someone dressed like an animal knowing there are other reasons than Furries I wouldn't assume they are a furrie.

Might be a team mascot.

[Lace Neil Singer]

What is normal?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

What is normal?

Nothing...


Everything.



Kingdom of Heaven reference FTMFW!!!one11!

[Skunkle]

Correct, "here" meaning "in the fandom" in general.

What is 'normal'? There is no single standard. This varies from culture to culture, state to state, city to city, and social group to social group. And what is perfectly normal in your social group may be extremely weird in another. At a furry con, it's quite normal to see: T-shirts with furries in bikinis (or less), fursuits, tails/ears, collars/leashes (though collars are becoming more prevalent in public) and open displays of platonic affection like hugs.

If you're a furry and you want to be "out" in public, go for it. You're not harming anyone. But do be aware that you're bound to get negative attention, partly due to the stereotypes and partly because such things do look odd to many people, even if they don't really know about furries; also be aware that the more "I'm furry and you can go suck it if you don't like me for this!!" you are, you'll be enforcing the stereotype of furries liking to freak people out. Remember the common mentality that: in public + anything the viewer sees as abnormal = freaky and trying to be freaky.

Oh, yes, and I should probably explain, just for clarification, the most commonly-heard 'freaky' furry term: yiff. This started with "yerf", supposedly an attempt at speaking a fox noise, the way "oink" is the official English for a pig sound, or the rooster's crow is represented as "cock-a-doodle-doo". Furries are, indeed, sexually-oriented to a turn, and from somewhere came the notion that, while "yerf" is a fox vocalization, "yiff" is a more excited or emphatic fox noise, i.e. something foxes say while having sex. And it's become a sort of generalized all-purpose term: it can be a noun or a verb. Noun: generally means "sex". Verb: usually means "to have sex". But also descriptive: "Yiff art" is a slang term for X-rated furry art. Don't get me wrong, though: this isn't a term the average furry fan uses every five seconds. It isn't the furry version of "smurf". It's just a head-scratching, confusing term to some.

Hence the arguably largest furry story archive: Yiffstar. Yiffsatar has artt, too. I don't personally visit, but from what I know, you can likely exclude adult stories from your searches, or search by topic. Like any fanfic or web fiction, while there IS a lot of sex (though is non-furry fanfic any different?) there's also a lot of romance, a lot of very involved and complicated stories, and a whole heapin' helpin' of drama and angst. Watch out: doomed relationships and sudden deaths of loved ones ahead. Again, non-furry fanfic has loads of this, too: what better way to drive a story (I guess) than take two main characters, have one fall in love with the other, and the other show zero interest? Or better yet, same start, but the other falls in love back...and then dies. Fantastic! <sarcasm> Not my thing, really... There's enough drama in the real world, I come to the fandom to have fun. Also see below: furry drama.

Best spot to find furry artwork is THE furry art repository: FurAffinity. Unless you sign up for an account (free) AND set your age in your profile AND set your preferences to allow mature stuff, you can browse to your heart's content and see nothing X-rated. Well, unless the artist forgets to flag their content as 'adult', though usually when that occurs it isn't intentional. On FA, you'll see everything from beautiful, professional-quality art to "my 7-year-old could do better' to 'MY EYES!! MY EYES!!' What has been seen, cannot be unseen... (Anyone who was at FURther CONfusion in San Jose last year and saw Pika-man: 'nuff sed, and I'm sorry we all got treated to that. I'm sorry to the entire reg line, even if I don't know the guy one bit or have any say over his costuming choices)

FURther CONfusion, or FC, is the 2nd largest furry con in existence. Last year was its 11th year. 2,587 registered attendees, 530 fursuiters in the parade. FC is held at the end of January. Anthrocon, in Pennsylvania, is the largest; last year was the (arguably) 11th year, with 3,776 attendees and a 640-suit parade. AC is held around July. And no, these aren't figures all furries know; I looked 'em up. I go to FC every year, and have since '06, and I don't even know. Especially if I'm IN the parade, since I don't get to see how long it is.

One thing I forgot to cover in my first post: furry drama. Yes, this is fairly separated from anti-furry bitching.

The fandom means many different combinations of things to many different people. Many of these seem to think 'those other guys' are taking it in the wrong direction, are ruining it for us guys or, on the flip side, are spoilsports who can't relax. So there's a fair bit of quiet (and occasionally not-so-quiet) infighting. Also, a large part of the fandom is comprised of nice people with severe social anxiety disorders, issues like Asperger Syndrome which can severely hamper the ability to function socially, etc. These can cause flare-ups as well. Last but not least, for some reason or other, there seem to be a number of furries who:
--Self-diagnose problems like Asperger and use it as a crutch, or a reason to bitch at people who "don't understand" (I personally have diagnosed Asperger, though years of work with a helpful psychologist have aided me in 99% hiding it - it is not a crutch and I don't use it as such as it affects my life so little now)
--Have bipolar, severe depression etc. and are not getting themselves aid, by consequence or even by choice, and who often snap peoples' heads off, freak out, have depressive or manic fits, etc.
--Claim to have bipolar, severe depression, etc. and use these as a reason to lash out, bitch at people, or try to gain attention and sympathy. If I had a dollar for every time someone has threatened to their fans (usually artists or writers) or friends that they're leaving the fandom forever...and then come back after the sympathy pours in, I'd be a very wealthy skunk.

I won't go into detailed background on any of this, but suffice to say it's common. The Something Awful and 4chan people love to, almost live to, provoke these people, but some of them need no provocation to have a hissyfit. Drama at cons is a common occurrence, but you probably won't notice it unless you really pay attention; it doesn't fill up the public zones. A lot of it remains behind closed doors. There is, however, one name that really rises above the rest as far as furry notoriety re: drama. I'll explain here just in case anyone wonders when furries mention it and all nod sagely, as though no more need be said.

Sibe. That's his furry name, Sibe D. Husky. His real name is well-known too, though. Sibe has issues. A number of furries have been duped by him, and I won't go into detail on this, save to say that he seems to enjoy being emotionally hurtful. What made him notorious was art theft.

Some furry artists have tried to make careers out of their art. Some of them, such as Adam Wan/Zaush, Kacey Miyagami, etc. have done a fairly good job at selling art. Many like Ken Sample, Nakira, Blotch (name for collaborative work of two artists, BlackTeagan and Kenket) and Japanese artists Dr. Comet and Trump, make their money selling art CDs. Others create pay-to-view adult art sites; Club Stripes, the story-based serial Pleasure Bon Bon and infamously copyright-insistant Jeremy Bernal's SexyFur, the original furry paysite, are examples. Bernal is really the end-all of these, going by the moniker of "evil art nazi" and actually threatening to sue websites that post his artwork. Sibe aimed to make pay-to-view art and art CDs available for free via P2P fileshare and, later, torrents.

Remember the cries of the Napster support factions? Most insisted that music should be freely available and that this would assist both artists and consumers both, and wanted artists to support this. And some did. Sibe isn't like that: His entire modus operandi was a very open and vocal "These people want to make a living doing this. I want to make sure they can't, so we'll try our best to ruin their plans. Let's piss people off and enjoy it!" He got in a fair bit of hot water, though I don't remember the details, and finally was shoved out of the biz, but suffice to say his infamy lives on. I've met the guy, once - he arrived at a local furmeet gathering at a shopping mall in an attempt to screw with a guy with a no-contact order against him; his masterly plan was to arrive before said person and, thus, force them to be unable to enter the mall. His attempts to convince mall security that said person was in the mall AND had threatened him with a firearm were unsuccessful. But having met him, I'll call him "intentionally annoying". I'm reminded of the scene in "Dumb & Dumber" where is used the line "Wanna hear the most annoying sound in the world?" For those who want more details - I'm not gonna go into the tabloid-ish stuff here - WikiFur, the furry wikipedia, has an extensive article on Sibe.

Edit: Was reading up myself, and found a great Sibe quote: "It's like I'm Napster, and greedy furry artists are Metallica". Oh, yes, Sibe, like so many of the artists make bucketloads of money off their art. <more sarcasm> There are very few who don't also have a day job. It's hard to make a living off furry art 100%.

I try my best not to get involved in drama... It really isn't all that difficult to do this. There are even artists who are so-called drama-whores, but whose art I like; I ignore the crap and enjoy the art. Even so, many furry artists are genuinely nice people, and will chat you up if you're at a con in the dealers' area. Steve Martin aside (no, not the comedian, but a furry artist known for being overly talkative, and for asking passerby "Hey! Wanna buy a naked bunny?") you can bet that people at their tables in the dealers' area will be friendly. So are at least 70% of the fandom: if you're nice, and ask questions with a little you're-on-the-spot edge as possible, you'll get answers. If anyone here has any questions about things they've heard about and/or seen in the fandom, I'll try'n answer 'em.

Incidentally, I wear a collar, fairly plain black leather with a tiny padlock on the front, all the time. Since I also usually wear a dress shirt and tie (I've always thought that if I own nice clothes, unless I'm doing yardwork there's no good reason not to wear them) I can tuck it down into my shirt collar if I want it hidden. If I don't mind the occasional odd looks, or are somewhere where I don't care, I leave it visible, and let the lock sit in front of my tie knot where it's out-of-the-way. The collar isn't related directly to my furry fandom side, and some of my characters, which I dress up like at cons (just the clothing, no ears or tails) don't wear a collar.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I like to wear cat ears sometimes, like at parties; there are no hyena ears, sadly, so cat ears are as close as it gets. I prefer to say that I have an animal "other"; sometimes, I feel mentally as tho I've changed into my other and I've dreamed of a full change happening. I'd never poke fun at people for wearing fursuits; as long as they're not using it to rob a bank, let them wear what they like.

[Rapscallion]

The fandom means many different combinations of things to many different people. Many of these seem to think 'those other guys' are taking it in the wrong direction, are ruining it for us guys or, on the flip side, are spoilsports who can't relax. So there's a fair bit of quiet (and occasionally not-so-quiet) infighting. Also, a large part of the fandom is comprised of nice people with severe social anxiety disorders, issues like Asperger Syndrome which can severely hamper the ability to function socially, etc. These can cause flare-ups as well. Last but not least, for some reason or other, there seem to be a number of furries who:
--Self-diagnose problems like Asperger and use it as a crutch, or a reason to bitch at people who "don't understand" (I personally have diagnosed Asperger, though years of work with a helpful psychologist have aided me in 99% hiding it - it is not a crutch and I don't use it as such as it affects my life so little now)
--Have bipolar, severe depression etc. and are not getting themselves aid, by consequence or even by choice, and who often snap peoples' heads off, freak out, have depressive or manic fits, etc.
--Claim to have bipolar, severe depression, etc. and use these as a reason to lash out, bitch at people, or try to gain attention and sympathy. If I had a dollar for every time someone has threatened to their fans (usually artists or writers) or friends that they're leaving the fandom forever...and then come back after the sympathy pours in, I'd be a very wealthy skunk.

I assume you're aware of this, but you just described pretty much every online community.

Rapscallion

[Skunkle]

Oh, yes, I'm quite aware. It's just that the Something Awful etc. goons (that's what the net-bullies there use as a self-blanket-term) play it up as though furry is the ass-end of the net and the only group so horribly afflicted. Actually, 90% of the problems with the oversexualized side of the fandom are shared by the anime fandom - furries catch far more flak for it because skimpily-dressed, big-eyed anime chicks getting attacked by hordes of tentacles is found hawt by loads of people who'd find a fox anthro getting banged by a cat anthro horrifying. *grin* But from what I know from friends, anime cons have a similar tendency to showcase extremely-overweight people who don't know the first thing about hygeine; anime fans just throw spandex into the mix.

Next year at my local fur con, I'm going to be handing out soap. Really. There's a shop near here that sells motel supplies. I'm going to buy a big huge case of generic soap. Then I'll make up two sets of labels and put one on each side. One will say something like "Zephyr brand Fur Soap: because skunks know soap!" The other will have instructions that hint without being direct that the user may not have encountered soap before, thus complete instructions, redundant to many people, might be necessary. Step 1 is "Remove your tail and ears. Remember, they DO come off!" I'll be handing these around. Last year at FC, similarly, there was a fursuiter hanging around in the hotel's elevator lobby, holding a large sign reading "Soap and water are your FURiends; please use them"

Lace Neil Singer, I'm bettin' I can find you some nice 'yena ears. Tell me what colors, how you prefer them (headband, elastic, hair combs, etc.) and what your price range is, and I'll ask around. I know some people who do suit stuff.

Anyone here on Fratching go to FC in San Jose? I'd love to know what occurred, or if anyone heard anything about, "Hot Fur". Backstory: Last year, my BF found a bunch of old floppies filled with furry art he was given back around 1996. We went through them, and there was a lot of eye-searingly horrid artwork, much of it X-rated. Stuff that was so bad it passed the "so bad it's funny" mark in a blur and came back around to awful again. We made up a small number of CDs filled with the abject worst, labeled them "Hot Fur" with some flowery prose describing the unbelievably hot art provided within for free, and hid these under stacks of fliers at various info tables at FC. They vanished quickly, but I never did hear any circulating rumors about the horrors within. I would, however, have loved to be a fly-on-the-wall when some lucky guy gathered his buds around his laptop, popped in the disc, and started paging through the contents.

OT: Raps, been readin' CS for years now. Always love your posts.

[Rapscallion]

OT: Raps, been readin' CS for years now. Always love your posts.

Me too.

What? What? I'm an expert in self-love...

Rapscallion

[AdminAssistant]

Thanks, Skunkle, for taking the time to post about this! I know someone posted about a doctoral thesis....in all seriousness, I have a feeling that 'online communities' are the next hot topic for academics. A friend of mine is already researching performative aspects of pen-and-paper role playing games versus online rpgs. Performing 'identities' could be the next step.

[Skunkle]

As much as furries don't want to be harassed for what they do, at the same time I think they'd feel uncomfortable being classified, detailed, categorized etc. by a specific study. Still, yes, examination would be interesting.

It's probably a little bit difficult get an objective view or "slice" of the fandom, since there are plenty of net nuts who'll pretend to be furries just to slip in lots of misinformation. Non-furries aside, there are a fair numbewr of people who count themselves furries who'll do the same thing, for the reason, it is said, that everything is done on the 'net: "For the lulz". Just for laughs, i.e. because said people find it funny.

Again, if anyone has fandom questions, I'll answer them if I know the answer. If I don't, I'll at least try to find one.

By the way, where's your icon from, Raps? I've been reading CS for so long (since back in the Mr. Slugger days) that that image pops into my head whenever I hear the word 'rapscallion'.

[Rapscallion]

I commissioned some cartoon strips from Jennie from before I took over the site to deal with some of the tales I experienced. That's from 'Irony Girl'.

Rapscallion

[AdminAssistant]

It's probably a little bit difficult get an objective view or "slice" of the fandom, since there are plenty of net nuts who'll pretend to be furries just to slip in lots of misinformation. Non-furries aside, there are a fair numbewr of people who count themselves furries who'll do the same thing, for the reason, it is said, that everything is done on the 'net: "For the lulz". Just for laughs, i.e. because said people find it funny.

Well, and I'm guessing here, since this will start in sociology/anthropology and not my field (Performing Arts), but the majority of the research will initially be done at cons. Good researchers who use the internet use it very carefully, and I have confidence that the anthropologists who do the ground work will sort out who's doing it for the 'lulz.' They would be looking at the why's and how's, if there are any common denominators amongst those in the fandom, and so on. They wouldn't be trying to classify or set aside people so much as to understand what it's all about and what the greater social implications are, if any.

Plus, in a realistic sense, there is incredible pressure on all academics to be up-to-date and in the know. Publish or perish, as the old saying goes.

From a performative aspect, if I were doing this study, it is interesting to see people not only associate with a particular animal but to wear pieces of that persona, whether that is fursuits or ears and tails. Hm. Now....if I were to do this would I go psycho-analytic (Freud/Lacan)? Or Postmodern? What would Foucault do?

That last paragraph is entirely rhetorical - as I'm primarily a historian and this just ain't my thing. BUT, it will happen. Rule 34 of academia is that 'If it exists, someone is writing their dissertation on it.'

[Kheldarson]

Heck, you could do a temperament study on it if you wanted. Yay psychology?

I'd like to add my thanks too Skunkle. Helps me understand a friend of mine a bit better.