Rape in comic books.

[Hyena Dandy]

While the examples I'm using here are specific to superhero comics, and I'm going to talk about them, I'd like to think that my statements (beyond the ones I make specifically about superhero comics) can apply to other media.

As a big fan of ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.com, I enjoyed Linkara's latest review of Action Comics #593, a story which involves a mind-controlled Superman having sex with a mind-controlled Big Barda. This is, pretty clearly, rape. Something Linkara (understandably) is quite upset about. However, one comment in the video sparked a small discussion in the comments. The comment Linkara made was, as far as I remember,

(in reference to the death of the character Big Barda in countdown)
"But that...[snip]...is not the worst thing that could happen to the character. No, that's in this comic."

To which someone else asked why Linkara was saying rape was worse than murder. (He answered because you survive rape) but they also made a comment which was largely ignored in the ensuing discussion. Saying that Linkara shouldn't say that you simply can't show rape in comics, even though you can show violence.



I want to give my thoughts on the issue, and see what other people think as well.

I think that, even in superhero comics, its alright to show rape. That said, it is not, as most comics, and indeed the comics fandom, seem to think, alright to TRIVIALIZE rape. Rape in comics these days seems to be used like dark colors and excessive pouches, and even, in some ways, death of a minor character. A way to make your comic 'dark and edgy' that should have no long-lasting effect on the character's psyche. Comic book characters who are raped very rarely seem upset about it beyond the end of that particular storyline. Those who do, comic fans complain about 'wangsting'*.

I think that, in order for it to be okay for comics to SHOW rape, they have to at least show they understand the effects of rape. Now, I'm not saying that in a 'if you haven't been raped, you can't write about rape' way. I'm saying that the comics have to show that they understand rape IS a traumatic event. To me, it doesn't feel disrespectful to rape victims to have a character who's been raped in comics, even though comics are usually an escapist medium. But its only not disrespectful if the writers are able to handle rape maturely. Honestly, a character having basically ANYTHING other than a short-term reaction is saying that 'rape doesn't really effect people'. At the moment, rape is frequently used as a way of making a comic dark and edgy without killing anyone, and the character who's been raped is expected to spend a few issues being upset about it, and then just get back to business like nothing happened. Neither Superman nor Big Barda ever reacted to the events of AC593 in any way. I'm not saying that there is a way these characters 'should' have reacted long-term. Only that they should have reacted long-term in SOME way.

Now, on a larger scale, here's what I think about how rape is portrayed in the media.

1) Rape is funny: Rape is not funny. A character having been raped should never be considered a comic event. I don't mind if the CHARACTERS make jokes about rape, as long as the jokes aren't at the expense of a rape victim, and that rape ITSELF is not portrayed as funny.

2) Rape is a minor problem: I'm pretty sure anyone who has suffered any kind of sexual abuse would be able to safely say that you don't just 'get over' rape.

3) Gay rape is funny/F-on-m rape is funny: Its not. Implying that a character has been raped is not amusing. Not even if its a straight character who's been raped by another man. Or a man who's been raped by a woman.

4) Rape is sexy: This one, my opinion is hard to quantify, but I'll do my best. Rape is not sexy. But fake rape can be sexy. That is, its fine to have rape sexual fantasies. If your tree bends towards finding rape sexy, then by all means, write about it. Or draw pictures. Or get your significant other to do a scene with you. Some people say that's disrespectful to rape victims. I think its only disrespectful to rape victims if you cross the line. As Kkat, author of a lot of furry femtorture pics, puts it.

"This is fantasy, not reality, and in fantasy, sexual torture is hot!"

I don't mind people getting off to the idea of raping/being raped by someone. As long as they're able to keep fantasy from reality, do what you want.






Er, I hope my thoughts were clear. I can clarify if you want.





*Wangst: A portmanteau of whine/wank and angst, implying that the character is complaining too much, or unnecessarily, to draw attention to themselves.

[Plaidman]

Where do you think Identity Crisis came from? One of the villains raped a hero's wife, and in turn the /lesser/ heroes, (Atom, Black Canary, Hawkman, Green lantern, Flash and Zatanna) mindwiped and changed the personality of him.

The villain naturally regains his memories and becomes enraged at the violation, (Hilarious in it irony).


Showing rape is nothing new in comics. It's happened before. It'll happen again.

Even today, Batman, one of my fave characters, isn't exacty over his own rape by Talia. (Which caused the birth of their child). He was drugged into it, and it does come up every now and then.

Problem with comics, is that it's handled by so many different writers and artists, and not everyone is working together. Stories are released months later sometimes, so while one was working on a character being raped, another writer is writing the character going into space to fight giant flowers that shoot purple gumdrops. The rape story is released first, and next comic is in space, fighting the flowers with no mention of the rape since the writer of that story at the time, didn't know about the rape story.

I'll shut up now.

[Hyena Dandy]

I'm afraid I don't understand what the point you're making is. That there is definitely rape in comics? I'm sorry if my post didn't make that clear... I made a lot of edits.

I'm aware of the events of Identity Crisis, and I think IC is part of the problem. Although one of the problems in it is that it takes place in the regular continuity. Because of the presence of it IN the regular continuity, we are expected to believe that Elongated Man's wife was raped, and that NOBODY EVER NOTICED IT (except the heroes who mind-wiped Dr. Light, and they never told anyone else about it. Now, I'm not saying that Sue Dibny should have started wearing a "I was raped" t-shirt, but I would expect that someone would notice that Sue was acting differently. The perspective I got in the story (as well as from other incidents of rape in the DC Universe) is that being raped is basically like getting a broken arm. Painful, traumatic, you won't forget it happened, but its not gonna effect you for a long time.

Batman isn't over Talia raping him (and it would have to come up, since their son is now Robin) but Nightwing was definitely pretty badly sexually abused, if not raped, by Tarantula, which he seems to have completely forgotten...

But that's just trivia, and I'm sure you could find evidence against that, I haven't payed much attention to Nightwing lately. My thesis, essentially, is a response to the idea that putting rape in a story at all is disrespectful. I think that rape is alright to put in the story... But only if its handled respectfully. It feels to me like rape is NOT being treated respectfully, and that its basically being treated like something to throw in to make your story 'dark'.


Rape in a comic (or other story) is like a gun. If you want to use it, then I'm fine with you using it. But only use it responsibly, because it is a very serious matter.

[Plaidman]

My point is many things.

1: There are dozens of writers for various comics. Not all writers want to write about the past rape of a character, be for personal reasons, uncertiently on how to use it, moral stance, or simply not liking that part of the story.

2: Not all people are tramatized by rape. There are people out there that yes, its a horrible deal they can never get over, but there are just as many, that aren't really fazed by it for numerous reasons.

3: That being said, do you really expect readers to belive, that these gods, (Which are what comic heroes really are in the end. Even Batman. These heroes can do stuff that none of us can ever do), these heroes that face death and destruction every single day of their lives, have fought their versions of gods, have persoanlly witnesses the destructions of worlds and universes, are going to be fazed by a rape? Yeah, it hurts them, but they've all been near death in one way or another numerous times, and the core belief of every comic hero, is the moral stance to do whatever it takes to help others, regardless of what has happened to them. No matter how hurt they are, no matter how tired they are, no matter what has happened to them, they still go out, every night and every day.

Terrible events happened to comic characters all the time. Repeatedly. However, only a few select things, that have evolved the character ever stay, ( Batman's parents being shot in front of him, Jason's death, the shrinking of Krondor (Or however you spell that city), The death of Gwen Stacy to name a few.

Not all readers want to read every comic, or every other comic, a reminder of these, just like they don't want to read about rape or how a beloved character was raped. It makes them seem powerless almost. Even Spiderman was molested as a child, but it's very very rarely brought up.

Some writers do it to bring a shock to readers, (Much like Superman's rape). Because it's Superman. Superman got RAPED.

Now, what about other writers, who see him as a pillar of light? They don't want to even think about Superman being raped, so they will never bring it up. Comic series aren't written by one writer throughout the entire series, but many many writers, and not all of them agree on stuff.

In short, to use your example, it is like getting a broken arm. Something that happens alot to all the heroes, damn near every day. But they are healed up and ready to take on the alien invasion army the very next day or comic. Because people need them to be the protectors. And comic book heroes want to be those protectors at any cost, regardless of their sanity or body.

[gremcint]

Nightwing 93 is complicated, I just reread it before posting to be sure but it's clear where people are coming from in calling it rape, I'd say it's something akin to taking advantage of an emotional state, (ie, really emotionally upset and looking to someone for comfort, or under the influence, or something along those lines)

Identity crisis on the other hand is one of the few stories I would say was handled about as well can be expected for this topic. It had lasting effects, even murdering supervillains are upset with Dr. Light when they find out.

Don't forget so much happens in the lives of these characters day to day that while they are friends, most of the time they see each other purely on the job and if they aren't hanging around Sue all that much off the clock and when they are with Ralph they're fighting bank robbers it really isn't something that's going to be noticed or commented on all the time.



the sex tape story is just dumb.

[Plaidman]

As for rape victims not getting over rape?

Some do. Some accept it as their past.

Some even colored it differently in their minds to handle it better.

Not so much getting over it, but accepting it and moving on. It's easier for others to do so. It also likely matters who raped one at what age and how also. At least in my experence it has.

[gremcint]

Wow, that nightwing run is fucked up, right at the end of 95 he almost signs a marriage license with her but runs off when batman calls and to my knowledge it's never mentioned before or again, he does jokingly refer to her as his stalker next issue.

[Hyena Dandy]

As for rape victims not getting over rape?

Some do. Some accept it as their past.

Some even colored it differently in their minds to handle it better.

Not so much getting over it, but accepting it and moving on. It's easier for others to do so. It also likely matters who raped one at what age and how also. At least in my experence it has.

I was not trying to say 'Rape victims should never get over rape'.

What I was trying to say was that rape victims should at least, shortly after it happens, acknowledge that it happened in some way.

[Plaidman]

I was not trying to say 'Rape victims should never get over rape'.

What I was trying to say was that rape victims should at least, shortly after it happens, acknowledge that it happened in some way.

And it was.

But you also have to know, that in comics, the time line is usually not ran together. It's not comic 2 is immedity after comic 1. Sometimes comic 2 is weeks after comic 1. Sometimes comic 5 is before comic 1. Call it the off camera drama. After all, we rarely see the heroes going to the bathroom, or shopping for food, let alone the therapists sessons that some heroes make mention of sometimes.

[Nyoibo]

Does Superman even need to use the bathroom?

[gremcint]

Here's a question wouldn't superman shatter the toilet with the force of either number 1 or two leaving his body, hell he'd have super farts.

[crashhelmet]

That's actually what powers his flight

[Ginger Tea]

I too watched that Atop the fourth wall double bill
the video implied content as all we saw was the looks of the characters

comics, like books, TV and movies are a medium for story telling, to use this plot device so pointlessly ...

OK words escape me at the moment for that paragraph.

True superhero's albeit enhanced strength technology or whatever their power is based DO go up against evil day in day out so might have to leave stuff like that at home to keep their head in the game.
A fire fighter would probably do the same as lives could be in his or her hands if their head was elsewhere

in short it should not be taken lightly and used just as a shock tactic gimmic to give your title an edge, if it drove the story and showed the aftermath, then its relevant, if it was purely throwaway, then you might as well not bother with continuity as a whole.

Although drieded by some "the boy's" take on the whole superhero issue, could and probably would handle these issues better, although they would have to stretch out the story line past a one shot issue like most were

[Hyena Dandy]

"the boy's"? Do you mean the comic "The Boys"? Or something else?

I don't like The Boys very much, personally. It seems too much like they're trying to be dark for the sake of being dark, and there don't really feel like they're any characters you can root for, or even sympathize with. And it just seems like Ennis just wanted to insult the superhero genre, and not in an unintentional way. Everyone is basically completely monstrously evil. The few that aren't are hopelessly naive, or

The Boys is just an immature comic. I mean, really, George W. Bush cut his head off with a chainsaw by mistake. There is no significance to this, other than as a "Take That" to Bush.

The concept could be interesting. But its really, really badly executed. I'd prefer The Authority. While they're a 'darker' version of the Superhero genre, there's at least a few points of light in the sea of blackness. I don't have a problem with making a darker version of a story. I'm fine with Grey and Gray Morality... But in The Boys, the conflict feels meaningless, just like a group of evil people fighting a group of other evil people, to no gain. There's a difference between a complex character and an ax-crazy psychopath.








Edit: That said, I understand that other people can enjoy The Boys, I just don't. I'm insulting the book, not its fans. (Because I wouldn't want to offend someone on Fratching ))And the real point is, I don't think The Boys would handle rape seriously. But I agree with your saying how rape should be handled.

[Eisa]

I think that rape and all forms of sexual abuse should be handled in a way that doesn't trivialize it, portray it as funny, or well, basically everything you mentioned in the first post. I hate when people act like a man being raped is funny. No, it really isn't. And no, they didn't ask for it. Women don't ask for it, either. Children really don't, I don't understand when people can say a 5-year-old was "acting sexy and asking for it." But that's something a little different...

I am an abuse survivor. If I listed all the things that have ever been done to me, it would be a really long list. I don't read many comic books, but I've seen rape portrayals in other media, and I STILL don't like any form of rape joke, I'm sorry. I understand that even some rape survivors joke about it, to try to handle it better or whatever, but it really, really bothers me. It's like it's become acceptable to act like "rape is funny" in the media, like saying "it's not rape if you yell surprise" or whatever. Or the stuff like "the game raped me." No, no, it didn't.