Pet Peeve: Confederate Flag

[Hyena Dandy]

Now, Confederate flags annoy me kn general. Obviously. I'm a yankee, they're SUPPOSED to annoy me. And I like not-slavery* and all the other stuff that the Confederacy liked and the Union was rather less likey. BUT! Point is, I don't like Confederate nationalist sentiment in general, but I believe people who are Confederate nationalists should be able to display it. They should be able to proudly fly the Confederate flag if they want.

I have no problem with flying the Confederate flag.

This flag.


See? That's the Confederate flag. That is not the flag I usually see. What I usually see is this





See, that's the Confederate BATTLE flag. Which you are only supposed to fly under two circumstances.

1) You are a member of the Confederate Army or Navy (Presumably you could have one if there was Confederate Air Force, but they didn't last that long, so there is no Confederate Air Force).

2) You are actively engaged in combat (for the Confederacy)

Therefore, simply driving around with that on the back of your car, seems to me to be rather insulting to what (it seems) people are trying to promote (That is, the confederacy as a national entity. I guess you could argue that Battle flag pays respect to the greys who died in the war, but that doesn't seem to be the purpose.)


Basically. If you want the Confederacy as a country, as a separate entity, then fly the first flag.

Fly the second one if you're honoring the dead on the Confederate side, or if you just really like Dukes of Hazard.











Sorry, I'm just sick of people thinking the Battle Flag was the National Flag.


*People who say the Confederacy was not Slave-based have clearly never read the Confederate Constitution. If you want to secede, and even use the Confederate Constitution sans-slavery, that's fine. I've always felt that countries should allow secession if the people of the area vote for it. In fact, had the lack of slavery NOT been the result, I would think the Civil War was a very silly thing indeed.

[Boozy]

Southern secessionists are kind of nutty though, right? And perhaps not so sharp?

Not to make light of your pet peeve, but I think that would be one of the last things about the American South that baffles me.

[Akasa]

I'm from the South and I've ONLY seen the second one. Didn't know the first one existed or the difference. See the problem?

[AdminAssistant]

I think that would be one of the last things about the American South that baffles me.

Oh for pity's sake.

The Confederate Battle flag is flown just as frequently by redneck racist Yankees as it is by Southerners. I agree, the first flag is the one that should technically be flown if you fly it in honor of the Confederacy and their cause (state's rights) and I have actually seen it once or twice. Hyena Dandy, you did forget to leave out Civil War re-enactors - they have a very good reason to fly the Battle Flag!

While the Civil War did eliminate slavery (a very good thing)....the Reconstruction instituted a new form of slavery (sharecropping) based on poverty instead of race. The militias, martial law, and corruption of the Reconstruction formed the fear and distrust of outsiders that remains in the culture to some extent, and in some cases prompts the flying of the Confederate flag.

Some pro-Confederates are actually very smart people who know their history well. Something else about the American South that might baffle you. (Hell, we even wear shoes and have indoor plumbing - wahoo!)

[HYHYBT]

The distinction among the several Confederate flags (there are others) became meaningless long ago.

In a sense, using the "battle" version is correcting the mistake of ever having designed the other one you show in the first place

Beyond that, I hardly ever see either; what I *do* see, sometimes, is people showing the old Georgia flag (the battle flag with a blue bar down the left side containing the state seal) because they JUST WON'T LET GO. We spent ten years or more arguing over whether to keep the [] thing, then changed flags twice within a couple of years because the one thing everyone could agree on was that the first "new" one was awful. Most everybody is still sick of the topic, but you know how some people are...

As for displaying actual Confederate flags (any of them), well... sometimes you use symbols you *have*. I don't know that any are still around, but for a time there were people who used it as sort of a Southern Pride flag: not about the actual Confederacy of 150 years ago, but about what The South meant to them in the present: home and NASCAR and whatnot.

[Hobbs]

I went to Robert E. Lee HS. When my brother was in his junior/senior year, they made us change the school's flag from the battle flag to this:



We Volunteers thought it was stupid that we were changing it to be PC. I mean, Robert E. Lee was the southern general; why shouldn't the school in his name carry the battle flag as it's school flag?

Oh, and for clarification, this is the original flag of the Confederacy:

We all hail to thee and thy name forever, Robert E. Lee Hi-iigh.
Your red and gray will always wave as will your banner fly-y-y...
Our hearts and loyalty remain forever in your hallowed halls.
Your majesty will show the way, you have no other peers,
Your fame and glory will not die; Robert E. Lee, thoughout the years!

[blas87]

My personal favorite is a bumper sticker with the second flag on it with a big X through it that says it all:

YOU LOST. GET OVER IT.

I see a lot of the second flag around here, in Wisconsin. In my junior year of high school, we had to BAN that flag because the redneck kids were using it as a gang symbol. For Pete's Sake, why are you flying this flag or decorating your truck with it in WISCONSIN?!

[protege]

For Pete's Sake, why are you flying this flag or decorating your truck with it in WISCONSIN?!

Blas, they do that here in Pennsylvania as well. It's always the rednecks and white trash that display that flag. They fly it from their homes, their pickups, etc. These losers then can't understand why everyone else thinks that they're a bunch of backwoods idiots, and tend to get very upset over that. Sorry, but way to reinforce a stereotype!

[Greenday]

I've only seen the Confederate flag flown once in my hometown. It was down within two days. I guess they took the hint that they were then hated by the entire town.

PA I've seen it more, but still not tons. And yea, it generally only seems to be one kind of people who fly it...the stereotypical ass-backwards hicks.

[Hobbs]

Hmm, I honor it b/c my great-great grandfather fought for the CSA.

[Boozy]

Hmm, I honor it b/c my great-great grandfather fought for the CSA.

Just because you have an ancestor who happened to fight for the South doesn't mean the flag deserves honour.

I'm sure there are a lot of people whose grandfathers were drafted into service in Nazi Germany, but that doesn't mean they should feel compelled to "honour" swastikas.

[Hobbs]

<snip>

I wish I were in the land of cotton,
Old times there are not forgotten,
Look away, look away, look away, to Dixieland!

In Dixieland where I was born,
Early on a frosty morn,
Look away, look away, look away, to Dixieland.

I wish I were in Dixie,
Away, away,
In Dixieland I will take my stand,
To LIVE AND DIE in Dixe.
Away, away, away down South in Dixie!

And for clarification, my grandfather didn't get drafted; he VOLUNTEERED. The Confederacy never had a draft.

[HYHYBT]

Oh, and for clarification, this is the original flag of the Confederacy:

Yeah, and I find it funny that the Georgia flag design based on the battle flag was controversial, while the current one based on THIS flag isn't (except for those who still want the "old" one back, of course.)

Still, since this Confederate flag was based on the US one, it works.

[Ginger Tea]

I have to say the first flag looks wank next to the battle flag, i have a battle flag but with the deeper colours of the first and not orange.

I'm English, so its nothing to do with the civil war afaik we wernt rooting for either side if we knew of such an event at the time of it happening.
I just got it cos the shop I went to was out of the jolly rodger design and I wanted a flag for my festival mascot/skull on a stick for Glastonbury 2000, it didnt come back the next year as it is too heavy a stick to be waving like a flag, most were just attatched to tent poles.

I got a few slavery comments, but I was always told the civil war wasnt about slavery and both sides had slaves.
Most accepted the they didnt have the design i wanted in stock (on the bright side they didnt sell swastica's)
then I got interviewed for the daily paper and after a day of the same questions i had started bull shitting my answers and they guys write up in the morning rag which i still have somewhere was full of more shit than i had spouted just to get them off my back

edit:
oh and my first exposure to the battle flag (this time in orange) was the general Lee in Dukes of Hazzard, so to me growing up in England and not America, it was part of a cool car, just like the swoosh on the Ateam van and starsky and hutch's car

[Greenday]

Yes, yes, the American Civil War was over state's rights. It just so happens that the state's rights in question at the time was...slavery.