Rap

[FashionLad]

I wish I could be as ignorant of the obvious effects it's having on my generation.

What's that supposed to mean?

I don't think it's music causing all of that. Maybe it's the lack of education or the lack of a parental figure in the family. Unless you've done appropriate studies, don't say it's rap causing all of this, because you don't know. And it's not just glorifying all of this...

I'll hold my child's head underwater.
If it's a boy, I was joking
if it's a daughter, I'll say I did what I did
because I had to...
And if you find my kid later
tell her I laughed too.

We just might work out fine
because I love you enough
to let you give the pain that I want
...And when you do
I just might fuck you
enough to love you.

Not rap, obviously.

The light looks good against
The bruises on your cheek
Another medal that you have to hold this week

Not rap, why am I not acting out? Both my parents were in my life. I live pretty well off. I listen to rap and I listen to songs with the lyrics that I just showed you. Maybe because it's not the music??

Look at the people that are mainly in gangs. A lot of them come from broken homes. Oh jeez, another variable. It's a taste in music. What do serial killers listen to?

[DarthRetard]

I'm just telling you what I SEE FashionLad. You said it yourself, you live pretty well off. I grew up in a rough neighborhood, to the point where I was allowed to carry a switchblade just to keep myself safe on the two mile walk to school. I was 10.

You see the image. You see it's popular. You've heard, I'm sure about the ris ein gang violence in some urban areas. I'm not saying rap is to blame, but it sure as hell isn't helping and it isn't being stopped. It IS exacerbating the problem, and violent content is being misconstrued as acting out and/or expression of discontent.

[FashionLad]

You see the image. You see it's popular. You've heard, I'm sure about the ris ein gang violence in some urban areas. I'm not saying rap is to blame, but it sure as hell isn't helping and it isn't being stopped. It IS exacerbating the problem, and violent content is being misconstrued as acting out and/or expression of discontent.

For that statement to be true, you'd have to take the rap out of a certain area and hope that gang activity and violence did not rise. And for that, I think you wouldn't have a favorable outcome for your arguement. That's why I say what you're saying is wrong.

[AFPheonix]

While I'm sure the music isn't the problem, it is a symptom of the attitudes that arise from living and being around that lifestyle.
Correlation does not equal causation.

[DarthRetard]

I never said music caused the problem, but it does fertilize the attitude behind the problem.

[FashionLad]

I never said music caused the problem, but it does fertilize the attitude behind the problem.

No, but I was trying to point out where you made it sound like there was a direct correlation, and that's what my point is. You can't prove there is a direct correlation until you start controlling many different factors and are able to actually isolate the problem.

That'd be like trying to saying that kids that listen to Marylin Manson are more likely to commit suicide or are being told to commit suicide. Listening to Marylin Manson is usually a symptom of depression, not the cause. (Not in all cases, I know this) So taking away Marylin Manson would be like treating the symptom instead of treating the cause, if that makes sense.

[protege]

No, but I was trying to point out where you made it sound like there was a direct correlation, and that's what my point is. You can't prove there is a direct correlation until you start controlling many different factors and are able to actually isolate the problem.

Exactly. Many of the problems of the ghetto have been going on *long* before rapping. Take some of the more "interesting" areas of Pittsburgh. Many of them have had high crime rates for decades. Many of the buildings are falling apart, there's garbage in the streets, vacant lots abound, bums on the street corners, etc. I really doubt that rap caused all of that. As much as I despise rap, it gets blamed for all of it. Just like rock and roll was getting blamed for problems in the 1950s and '60s.

[lordlundar]

That'd be like trying to saying that kids that listen to Marylin Manson are more likely to commit suicide or are being told to commit suicide.

I don't know, If I listened to Manson, I would probably commit suicide. Or maybe that's if I caught myself listening to Manson...

[FashionLad]

I don't know, If I listened to Manson, I would probably commit suicide. Or maybe that's if I caught myself listening to Manson...

Haha! I actually listen to Marylin Manson, usually when I'm feeling down. 98% of the time, my mood can be realized by the music I'm listening to.

[Mistress Of Foxes]

but by that argument, the same could be said for metal. if shouting over a drumbeat is not music, how is that any different from screaming over a distorted guitar?

This is exactly why I hate the metal bands where the lead "singer" only growls. I hate it when I can't tell what the lyrics/text/whatever are. I prefer the more melodic bands, like Blind Guardian, Rhapsody, Sonata Arctica and Demons and Wizards.

The music is always a large part of why I like a song, but if I can't understand what's being said/sung at all, I'll easily start hating it, or at least dismissing it.

That said, I think I stopped listening for new music sometime around the mid 90's. I prefer listening to the older stuff, especcially if the music industry has turned into what it seems like it has turned into, gathered from all the crap my peers listen to. It's usually just crappy remixes of old hits, usually techno remixes, rap, hip hop, and really crappy pop made by "artists" that are made popular only because of their looks and sex appeal, instead of having actual talent.

I know I'm sounding like a cranky old asshole (git off ma lawn! ), but people are always saying that this and that are the ruins of the music industry, when really, it's more likely that they care more about getting lots of "artists" out there with as many tracks as possible in as short time as possible, no matter how bad it is. They probably spend more money on trying to make people famous and popular then they lose on anything else.

[Mistress Of Foxes]

I'd like to point out something else I've noticed after yet another day of being put through my classmates' taste in what they call "music", part of which is rap.

Most of the rap, hip hop and stuff like that can't really be defined as music, in that it only has lyrics and a beat. To define something as music, there needs to be a melody. Even the slightest hint of a melody is enough to make a track into music, but as long as there's only the bass, it's not music. It's a beat and nothing more.

Poetry rhymes, too, and has a rhythm, but that doesn't make it music, and a lot of people, sadly, doesn't realize that words and some kind of noise doesn't make it music, either. There are several different genres, I guess you could call it, when it comes to "artistic noise", as my Music teacher likes to call it.

I repect people that are able to throw out a beat and a rap on the spot, but I won't say it's music. It's missing something to be that.

I'm not saying that all rap is crap, but like with many other types of music, it's become a trend that you need to dig into the bands and artists that are less known to actually get to the good stuff.

[DarthRetard]

Anyone on here a musc major in school?(Hint: I took AP Music Theory and Composition in high school <3) Just curious. Here's the American Heritage definition for Music:

mu·sic Audio Help (myōō'zĭk) Pronunciation Key
n.
The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.
Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.
A musical composition.
The written or printed score for such a composition.
Such scores considered as a group: We keep our music in a stack near the piano.
A musical accompaniment.
A particular category or kind of music.
An aesthetically pleasing or harmonious sound or combination of sounds: the music of the wind in the pines.

Now, here's the definition of melody, for those who are sketchy on the specifics:


mel·o·dy Audio Help (měl'ə-dē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. mel·o·dies

A pleasing succession or arrangement of sounds.
Musical quality: the melody of verse.
Music
A rhythmically organized sequence of single tones so related to one another as to make up a particular phrase or idea.
Structure with respect to the arrangement of single notes in succession.
The leading part or the air in a composition with accompaniment.
A poem suitable for setting to music or singing.


Rap is broken down into three parts, essentially, IMHO:

1. Vocals
2. Bass
3. Looping or repeating melodic phrase

Let's use Eminem as an example, say......The Real Slim Shady:

Opens with a synthesized rhythm/melody, which plays throughout most of the song, then UNDERNEATH that, you hear the "beat" or bass.

To me, essentially, even though some of it may not be pleasing to MY ear, it still is classified and qualifies the definition of music, like it or not.

[Mistress Of Foxes]

I am currently majoring in Music, although I'm still in my first year, so I can easily be mistaken.

But much of the rap I've heard my peers hear doesn't have that hint of a melody that I'm sure some or most of the other tracks do. It's always just the same beat and bass rhythm.

But even so, as I said before, it's not all bad. People just tend to think of the worst examples if they dislike rap and have to explain why.

Still, I'd have to say that I'm not a huge fan of the lyrics talking about violence, no matter what genre of music it is. On the other hand, if the violence is so exaccerated (sp?) it's completely unrealistic, I like it because I can get a laugh from it. But it's a very fine line between those two, I'm aware of that, so saying that I'm against all violence in music would just be me being a big fat hypocrite.

[Boozy]

Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

I usually bail at the point in a debate where someone pulls out a dictionary, but in this case I think it may have been necessary.

Music is supposed to be fun and relaxing. Darth put it correctly - if its rhythmic and sounds pleasing to someone's ear, I think we can consider it music.

[DarthRetard]

That's the thing. It's all preferential.