SOE takes the Massive out of MMO

[Andara Bledin]

Shale was supposed to be part of the original Dragon Age: Origins game when the disk went gold, but the character broke the game, so they had to strip it out entirely. The fact that EA made it pay DLC after it the character was adjusted so that those issues no longer existed is far more of a cash grab, as far as I'm concerned, since that was supposed to be on the disk in the first place and only ended up being DLC because they couldn't finish the fix in time.

Bitching about release day DLC being planned seems kind of like bitching that they made everybody wait for the second half of the last Harry Potter movie and made us pay for a second ticket, despite the fact that both movies were filmed at the same time and so they should have just made one huge movie and released it all at once.

If they actually shortened the playing time for ME3 in order to shave off this storyline that is going to be DLC, then you have a valid concern. However, my take on it is that they knew they wanted to do other stuff to add to the game and chose to keep the base game the same length and did development on the DLC during the same time so that those who really wanted it could have it immediately, rather than playing the game for months and then having to start all over to be able to play with the integration of the new content later on.

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[Gravekeeper]

The fact that EA made it pay DLC after it the character was adjusted so that those issues no longer existed is far more of a cash grab, as far as I'm concerned, since that was supposed to be on the disk in the first place and only ended up being DLC because they couldn't finish the fix in time.

They're doing the same thing with ME3's multiplayer component.

Bitching about release day DLC being planned seems kind of like bitching that they made everybody wait for the second half of the last Harry Potter movie and made us pay for a second ticket, despite the fact that both movies were filmed at the same time and so they should have just made one huge movie and released it all at once.

Its more like releasing a Harry Potter movie then offering a second optional ticket at the theatre that lets you watch an additional 10 minutes of the movie that are all deleted scenes of Harry's never before seen Death Eater pal. Zero day DLC of this nature is just bad form, period. If you have to publically try and explain to your customers how your industry works to try and calm them down, you are failing at something.

Customers do not care nor should they be required to know the inner workings of your company. All that matters to the customer is that you made a dick move. Why you made it doesn't make it less of a dick move. Its still a dick move. It doesn't matter when the DLC was made, only that it was obviously planned to be ready by release day as zero day DLC. Seeing as this character was leaked back in June of last year, its not like they just went "Oh! Lets think of something to make before release!".

They knew they were making it, they knew when it would be ready and they damn well knew it was a Big Story Deal that long time fans would rightfully want. It could have been put in as a release day content patch, but they willfully choose to charge people for it. On release day.

If they had held off on it for a month, it ironically wouldn't have been a problem. But because its intentionally out on day 1, it looks like a dick move cash grab. Multiplayer is in no way important to the story of Mass Effect ( which is what the game is all about ). Extra characters, especially one from arguably the most important race in the entire game fiction, as zero day DLC is just a dick move.

If it had been a weapon pack or a side quest or something ala Warden's Keep it would have ruffled less feathers. But as story content it intentionally creates a "You're not getting the full story experience unless you shell out another $10" vibe.

That's why people are pissed about this.

[Andara Bledin]

By that reasoning, the Collectors Edition stuffs should be offered as the regular edition, too.

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[Gravekeeper]

By that reasoning, the Collectors Edition stuffs should be offered as the regular edition, too.

Care to explain or just going to dismiss the entire argument in one sentence? ;p

[Andara Bledin]

From what I could get, you're saying that anything that's planned to be available at launch that will appeal to the fans should be part of the base price tag. DLC codes, extra disks... Why should that apply to one and not the other?

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[Mytical]

Actually..in all honesty..I am not a fan of collectors editions either. Now I can see when it provides something like cloth maps, figurines, etc. But digital content..game artwork..etc..that stuff really should be available to whoever buys the game. Don't get me wrong..I got the collectors edition of Might and Magic :Heroes VI. Which just had digital content..because I am a big fan.

A collectors edition should have something physical to justify its increased price however. At least imo.

[Andara Bledin]

I don't buy collector's editions that don't have physical swag, usually in the form of art books, and trinkets. Starcraft 2 came with a very nice dogtag thumbdrive with the entire first game on it. Diablo 3 comes with a resin Diablo skull with a soulstone thumbdrive with at least one of the earlier games on it. Arkham Asylum came with a display batarang (cheap as crap, really), and Arkham City came with a particularly fancy statuette (to make up for the batarang, is my guess).

But other things that are sometimes included in these collections are things such as the game music on disk. Or the artbooks on disk. I really don't think it's unreasonable for them to be able to make money on separate creations that are tangential to the game itself, even if it's purely digital content.

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[lordlundar]

By that reasoning, the Collectors Edition stuffs should be offered as the regular edition, too.

The Day One DLC isn't Collector Edition content though. It is similar to the Zaeed DLC from the second game but instead of including it for free because it wasn't ready on time they decided to essentially say "whoops! we goofed, so we'll charge you extra to fix it."

[Gravekeeper]

From what I could get, you're saying that anything that's planned to be available at launch that will appeal to the fans should be part of the base price tag. DLC codes, extra disks... Why should that apply to one and not the other?

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Thats not what I'm saying. If this had been bonus items or in game titles or something stupid like that no one would have cared. But this is story content that involves a party member who, in the in game universe, their very existence would have been the biggest discovery in the history of the entire galaxy. Their exsistence is essentially completely unignorable from a story perspective and central to the entire plot of the series so far. To shuffle that off into a $10 zero day DLC is straight up dickish no matter what excuse they use.

Like I said, if you have to publically try and explain how your company works in response to customer backlash, you've done something wrong. Customers don't care how your business works or if you're having a bad day or whatever the reasoning behind you screwing them is. All that matters is you screwed them and you knew damn well you were doing it. This is not a surprise to EA or Bioware because they already had similar backlashs with Dragon Age. They *knew* this would piss people off and to ramp up the stakes by making the zero day DLC more important to the game's story they knew they would catch even more shit then last time.

But they're betting people will still grudgingly pay for it because of how important it is to the story. Hence its a pure cash grab dick move.

With Zaaed and Kasumi in ME2, they weren't finished for the final game release, but neither were they important to the game's story in any way. You didn't miss anything by not having them.

Collector's Editions should, as you said, have swag. Music, art books, figurines, maybe a couple of in game fluff items. But they should never withhold story content that is central to the the whole damn series. Because then you're basically going "For an extra $10 you can find out what REALLY happened".

Which is pure dick move. >.>

[Andara Bledin]

The Day One DLC isn't Collector Edition content though. It is similar to the Zaeed DLC from the second game but instead of including it for free because it wasn't ready on time they decided to essentially say "whoops! we goofed, so we'll charge you extra to fix it."

No. It's more, "Well, we've got the game mapped out and it's all set to produce, but hey, we've got this extra storyline that we want to add on as DLC, and if we put a second crew on that, we can have it ready by launch."

It's not that it wasn't ready on time; that was the case with Shale. It's that it was never intended to be part of the primary game release. I just don't have a problem with that.

But this is story content that involves a party member who, in the in game universe, their very existence would have been the biggest discovery in the history of the entire galaxy.

Don't have time to answer right now... will get back to this later.

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[SkullKing]

I do not see Shale as a cash grab.

Things get cut off of the final product all the time for many reasons.

after the game was done and shipped they discovered a way to make it work, and included her.

[Dreamstalker]

If the content (character etc) was intended to be in the game all along but stripped at the last minute for purely technical reasons (fixing glitches), the logical thing to do would be give the fixed content free of charge to those who already purchased the game (especially if the character was touted as being in the game originally and nixed at the last minute), no?

The PC version of Ghostbusters was touted as having multiplayer features which were inexplicably stripped from the final release (of course the players had to discover this), and zero DRM...but got shipped with SecuROM

[SkullKing]

If the content (character etc) was intended to be in the game all along but stripped at the last minute for purely technical reasons (fixing glitches), the logical thing to do would be give the fixed content free of charge to those who already purchased the game (especially if the character was touted as being in the game originally and nixed at the last minute), no?

Not really. They planned it to be on the game thinking it would need an "x" amount of work to be made functional. In reality it needed a lot more.

Games like any other project need to be constantly readjusted as the reality of the process is better understood.

If the general public was mislead into believing the game they bought contained shale and it didn´t, then she should be included for free. But personally I only heard of shale, when the DLC was announced.

Does anyone else know if it was announced the shale was in the vanilla game, but not announced when she was cut?

The PC version of Ghostbusters was touted as having multiplayer features which were inexplicably stripped from the final release (of course the players had to discover this), and zero DRM...but got shipped with SecuROM

This is unethical and I would have demanded my money back.

[Dreamstalker]

I wasn't all that concerned about the lack of multiplayer (my ISP gets twitchy with online gaming anyway), but it was still a dickish move (all other platforms had multi). The inclusion of DRM wasn't clear until I installed it (I suspect that Sony threatened/forced them to include it, they're overly paranoid about some properties). I contacted Atari (as did probably everyone else) and was told 'return it to the store'....stores tend to not take back opened PC games.

Eh, the game itself was cheap enough, but the time spent finding a crack/fix that actually worked (and having to shell out for another CD burner)

[Gravekeeper]

Shale was included as part of the retail game. You didn't get her if you bought the game used. It was a way for them to get some $ off of used game sales. Which I don't mind. It was Dragon Age 2 where the DLC started getting really shifty when the extra char was only included in collector's editions. But he was a wanker anyway so no one cared too much as I recall.

With ME3, regulating the most potentially important story char in the game's universe to zero day DLC, while keeping some new char fuckhead in game that seems to be literally designed to be hated by long time fans ( James Vega ) is very questionable. He's suppose to represent the "new player experience". Yeaaah....what sort of new players are you trying to get at this point, Bioware? This is the 3rd in a series of very interconnected games which are direct sequels of each other. Your target market isn't new players that are going to jump into part 3 as their first purchase of the series.