Alright who is in the JLA movie, debate

[violiav]

How about a Doomsday movie? In JLU Doomsday was tied into Cadmus, so that might work for bringing everyone together. It kinda depends on that the next Superman move will deal with. Maybe it'll be a Doomsday movie, that edges in an intro to the new Batman/Bruce Wayne.

BW is in Metropolis for some science/tech thing and CK or Lois interviews him. During this interview some crime happens, BW's all, "I gotta go."

Then they both show up costumed and are,"WTF?"

You know, I'm pretty sure I've seen that in a cartoon before.

Anyway, Cadmus stuff happens, Doomsday gets out somehow. Superman dies, Doomsday is gotten rid of. Lois is upset, Batman doesn't believe he's dead. Batman finds out the Cadmus is moving their base of operations to Themyscira.

[Nekojin]

With regard to the Wonder Woman angle - it's complicated. William Marston, the creator of Wonder Woman, was a very, very complicated man. He was a feminist before there was really even such a concept as feminists, but he also had a fetish for seeing strong women tied up and helpless. He was married, and had a live-in mistress (which is reported to have been a completely trilateral poly relationship).

He liked strong women... and he liked strong women being helpless. It's no accident that he created one of the strongest feminist symbols to date... and it's likewise no accident that she's also the character most closely associated with bondage. He had a strong interest in the concepts of domination and submission.

And none of this really has much to do with modern usage of the character. She doesn't have to be bound and helpless to reflect the character's origins. She was specifically designed to be "as strong as Superman, but female."

And the classic (1970's-era) costume is plenty modest enough for television or movies. The newer design, with the pantsuit look, lacks any sort of coherence. Like the redesign of Power Girl, it was a solution in search of a problem.

[violiav]

He liked strong women... and he liked strong women being helpless. It's no accident that he created one of the strongest feminist symbols to date... and it's likewise no accident that she's also the character most closely associated with bondage. He had a strong interest in the concepts of domination and submission.

Exactly. To say, "Well WW was just tied up and dumb" really isn't accurate.

This quote from him explains it pretty well, I think. Wonder Woman was also created at the start of Americas entry into WW2, right around the same time when most of the workforce was women.

Marston wrote: "Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman."

It could be seen as trying to find a balance between the "Ice Queen" and "Pouting Princess". Early Wonder Woman baddies were mainly female, but then movies these days seem to shy away from baddies. Woman either aren't allowed to be evil, or it's faux paux for them to get beat up/beat up other people.

[HYHYBT]

It is just too late now.

Or, at least, FOR now. The Marvel series will run its course.

[Andara Bledin]

The only movie that's had a memorable female baddie that I can remember of late was another comic book movie; Dredd. They not only had a woman as the ultimate bad guy, but she was pretty and physically flawed. And I'd be willing to say she was outright evil, too, although the Dredd universe can make that hard to determine beyond merely coldly self-serving.

Beyond that, female main antagonists are almost entirely relegated to fairy tale movies and almost never get even dirty until the ultimate battle.

[Gravekeeper]

The Superman vs Hulk or Thor is debatable if he could curbstomp them. The debate of who would win between Superman and Hulk has gone on a long time. Hulk has no limit for his power, the madder he gets the stronger he gets.

Yes and no. That's what everyone says around him, but he doesn't live up to it that often that I've seen. He gets taken down a peg fairly regularly. Because if he didn't it wouldn't be that interesting. Also, he's sort of a force of nature without much in the way of strategy. So he gets outsmarted fairly often too.

Supes on the other hand could likely destroy planets if he was so inclined. Hulk just, well, smashes.

Thor on the otherhand I have to outright disagree on, and here is why. First there is Thor's weapon. It's magical, and Superman does not handle magic very well.

Problem is Supes could wield Thor's hammer ( and did once ). Wonder Woman has wielded it before too. The hammer has just as many misc ridiculous abilities as Superman has though. Also, for the most part Thor still likes to either beat or electrocute people with it. Which are still physical forces.

Thor is regarded as an Immortal, Superman is not immortal. So while most of the time people would have Superman come out on top, it would make no logical sense for that to be so.

Regarded as, not actually is. Thor was killed by Odin's brother, and Odin was killed as well. Its more like Highlander immortality than actual invincible immortality.

And as for 'alien' Thor is from Asgard..don't get much more alien.

Well, no. I mean, obviously its Norse mythology so its not exactly alien.

What JLA can not do is the alien invasion thing. At least not for the first one. Because that will put the last nail in the coffin.

Very true. Though that brings up an interesting topic. What sort of world threatening menace can they use to set themselves apart from the Avengers? JLA doesn't seem to have much in the way of opposing villains that really leap out as having name recognition outside of the comics.

Heck it could be trouble between the surface and Atlantis or something. Just not alien..

Problem is the whole sea vs land thing is kind of Namor's thing and he predates Aquaman.

Beyond that, female main antagonists are almost entirely relegated to fairy tale movies and almost never get even dirty until the ultimate battle.

Good female villains are really really rare now that I think about it. Wonder Woman villains were mostly terrible. While the most well known female villains always seem to fall into the seductive / femme fatale category ( Catwoman, Enchantress, Mystique, etc ). Then on top of that, they're practically never action villains that will get into a flat out battle. They're either mastermind types ( more often than not using their wily girl parts on our big dumb penis proxy of a hero ) or elusive schemer types.

The only really great female villain that comes to mind that wasn't a sex pot / forbidden fruit to the hero is Harley Quinn, and they're working on undoing that and slutting her up now anyhow.

While the only really would fight you and farking annihilate you female villain that comes to mind is Dark Phoenix.

[Mytical]

Well seeing as Asgard is actually another realm in Marvel, on another actual planet the fact that Asgard is Earth Mythology is technically correct, but not according to Marvel. IE the people from the Dimension/Planet Asgard visited earth and people based the mythology from it.

As for JLA not having enemies with brand name recognition outside the comics? Wait...what? Lex Luthor is little known outside the Comics (yes he is mostly supes enemy, but he is also a JLA enemy)? Legion of Doom not known outside the comics? By that logic neither does the Avengers.

Some yes, are more known to Superman, but most of his foes would also make great enemies for the whole JLA. Just like Loki was mostly known for Thor, but made a good enemy for the Avengers.

[Gravekeeper]

As for JLA not having enemies with brand name recognition outside the comics? Wait...what? Lex Luthor is little known outside the Comics (yes he is mostly supes enemy, but he is also a JLA enemy)? Legion of Doom not known outside the comics? By that logic neither does the Avengers.

Lex, alright, but everyone else in LoD. I recognize Sinistro and thats about it.

Marvel has lots of world threatening shit for the Avengers. Galactus I would think is at least somewhat recognizable for example. JLA seems like they just sort of put everyone's archnemesis on one mirror team.

[violiav]

Pretty much any foe, major r otherwise, can be on Legion of Doom. Firefly, Killer Frost, Grundy. so what if -you- don't know who they are. You don't have to go into a move -already- knowing who -everyone- is. For Avengers I had no idea who Hawkeye was. Never read the comics, I've only seen the Avengers Ultimate animated movie some years ago and played Marvel: Ultimate Alliance.
I still enjoyed it

I don't know jack about Guardians of the Galaxy other than people seem fairly excited about it. What the heck? I'll still probably go see it.

I'm fairly certain the segment that thinks, "Blah, i don't know these people! Wat'er they dooin on the big TV!!" is not as big as one might think.

The way effects are today you can make a wicked Gorilla Grodd or Ultrahumanite.
You would know if you stuck with the cartoon, which is -still- in reruns on Saturday Morning cartoon lineups. Whatever your opinion is about the first three parter, it's still been critically very well received. ISo, yes, there are people and children that still watch it if they don't have Netflix.

[Mytical]

Pretty much what was said above. Only reason a lot of people would recognize Loki is because he was in the Thor movie, and the only people might recognize Galactus is the Rise of the Silver Surfer.

If DC is willing to remove the alien invasion barrier they have a ton of recognized world threats. Heck a lot of people would recognize more JLA badies because of DC Universe online. Heck if they want to go the route of Loki, they even have Circe who is a bit more known the Loki because not only is she in the slightly more popular Greek Mythology, but a lot of schools have Iliad and Odyssey as require reading. Same for Ares, who has fame outside of both Mythology and DC because of the Hercules TV show (which was very popular) AND the Xena TV show (also very popular). Both Circe and Ares would also be considered 'earth grown' threats if Loki is.

No, name brand isn't the issue. There are plenty of challengers for the JLA, but you did earlier hit the nail on the head when you talked about DC focusing more on the powers. Showcasing the powers is a major DC flaw, and would be even more so if they did a JLA and focused on the powers.

Everything can be over come, but if they make the first movie even a little bit wrong..it's going to be a blood bath. And with so many people with so many powers, they are going to want to show off some of their power. Which could be terrible. Though without alien or becoming too much like the Avenger movie there are a few options.

Though they could feed off the popularity of Planet of the Apes and go Gorilla Grod

[Andara Bledin]

Actually, Ares would be an awesome villain for a Wonder Woman movie.

If they embrace mythology and magic full on, they could use that to differentiate from Marvel, who seem to be mutants, technology, and alternate worlds.

[Gravekeeper]

I'm fairly certain the segment that thinks, "Blah, i don't know these people! Wat'er they dooin on the big TV!!" is not as big as one might think.

That's not what I mean. The problem with the "Who the hell are these people?" effect is the first impression. DC has a lot of goofy ass characters. Marvel does too, but DC really excelled at it. I don't know if you had any of the infamous DC Who's Who comics as a kid, but I did. Some serious goofy ass going on in there.

Thus is the problem. Its okay if main stream audiences aren't totally familiar with the villains. But the main stream audience is not going to take someone like Gorilla Grodd seriously. Conversely, the nerd core comic fans might get upset at the absence of Gorilla Grodd.

Most of DC's best villains are concentrated in the Batman franchise. So they'remostly out. GL already kinda ruined Parralax and Sinistro. We already got General Zod. So for world threatening villains I guess that leaves stuff like Darkseid and Doomsday? Doomsday not even being a character so much as an excuse just to kill Superman.

DC may have to go the Legion of Doom route just to differentiate from Avengers. But then it'll be a tough task to put together the right combination of villains. Without retreading anything or using anything too silly.

I don't know jack about Guardians of the Galaxy other than people seem fairly excited about it. What the heck? I'll still probably go see it.

GoG encapsulates the problem perfectly. Because objectively speaking, GoG are absolutely ridiculous.. This is the team with an alien tree man and a gunslinging raccoon. I'm really curious to see how the hell Marvel is going to pull off a movie with them. Unless its going to intentionally be a comedy.

I was never able to take that gunslinging raccoon seriously when it showed up in Avengers stuff. If it appears on the big screen... >.>

Actually, Ares would be an awesome villain for a Wonder Woman movie.

If they embrace mythology and magic full on, they could use that to differentiate from Marvel, who seem to be mutants, technology, and alternate worlds.

Yes, and whats more going the mythology and magic route gives the audience a more familiar starting territory.

[Mytical]

Ok so I am going to say that using Ares as a JLA Villain would be way too much like Loki, and that too many people would bash them for copying Avengers. But I agree that to make a WW movie with him would be awesome. Too bad the guy that played Ares on Herc died, or I think that would have went over very very well.

Another against WW could be Circe. Again with the mythology and magic angle.

Circe could also join the LoD for something a bit different.

I say it would be risky and chance a lot of people getting turned off because it is 'alien' but Brainiac would be a good choice as a sole villain IF they did a superman movie and introduced the 'super robots' that Superman has sometimes in different comics. Him taking control of the robot Superman, and trapping Superman somewhere so that at first people would be thinking Superman went bad (ie only using one robot) and when the JLA managed to take it down (and find out it is a robot) unleash dozens of them so that the JLA not only has to find and rescue superman (ie the groups powerhouse would be out of the mix for a lot of the movie) but find a way to be many places at once AND fight the superman robots. Lex could also pull this off (he is a genius after all).

[lordlundar]

GoG encapsulates the problem perfectly. Because objectively speaking, GoG are absolutely ridiculous.. This is the team with an alien tree man and a gunslinging raccoon. I'm really curious to see how the hell Marvel is going to pull off a movie with them. Unless its going to intentionally be a comedy.

I was never able to take that gunslinging raccoon seriously when it showed up in Avengers stuff. If it appears on the big screen... >.>

Eh, once you get over the WTF factor you realize Rocket Raccoon is very similar to Logan. Then you realize just how much of a badass he really is.

[Nekojin]

GoG encapsulates the problem perfectly. Because objectively speaking, GoG are absolutely ridiculous.. This is the team with an alien tree man and a gunslinging raccoon. I'm really curious to see how the hell Marvel is going to pull off a movie with them. Unless its going to intentionally be a comedy.

I was never able to take that gunslinging raccoon seriously when it showed up in Avengers stuff. If it appears on the big screen... >.>

You do realize that this is the same comics company where a girl whose primary power is the ability to talk to squirrels is considered one of the most powerful beings in creation, having singlehandedly stopped a cosmic power at least once?

I mean, granted, Squirrel Girl's phenomenal feats are generally done off-page, and it's kind of a running joke, but it's canon.